Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Right now we are focused on retraining those staff who are available and who have the experience to best handle the new programs.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you for being with us, once again, to answer our questions about the budget.

As we all know, when a veteran is in his or her transition period after service, it's often one of the most difficult times for them. They feel extremely vulnerable, and a potential crisis can occur.

Can you speak to us a little bit more about the veteran emergency fund, and just tell us how it's going to be different from what was offered in the past?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

First, it allows us flexibility that we didn't have before. What's interesting is that when I first came on as minister, even though you're talking about a big department that dispenses billions of dollars in programs and services and has thousands of people in its employ, you actually have very little flexibility to be able to take some money and help somebody out immediately. That's some consolation to taxpayers, knowing that every dollar is watched, but it means that you don't have the flexibility to act very quickly.

Before this emergency fund, and in fact in the present day, we rely upon bequeathments, the people who have left money in their estates, for instance, and have set up dedicated funds to help homeless veterans, for instance. Even then, it might be very particular, i.e., it might be for a particular city, a particular province, or only under particular circumstances, so it doesn't allow for a lot of flexibility. This will, so that when we know that someone is in need, we can just immediately, for instance, get them off the street and give them the shelter they need while we assess what programs and services may be available.

Do you want me to take it a little further?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Just to reinforce what the minister indicated, the funding that we have today is all kind of tied to the eligibility of the veteran. When we know the veteran had an injury as a result of service, then we can dispense funds. As the minister indicated, up to now we've been able to use some of the charitable funds that have been given to the department. We have 23 different funds. One fund can only be used for those veterans at Ste. Anne's Hospital, one can only be used at Sunnybrook, and one can only be used on Vancouver Island.

We've also partnered with the Canadian Armed Forces and got great support from the Canadian Armed Forces from their morale and welfare services fund.

As of April 1, for the first time we will have public funds that we can dispense to support a veteran in crisis even before we've established their eligibility. If a veteran comes to us, no matter when they come to us, we can dispense funds and put a roof over their head, put groceries on their table, and provide them support as we figure out who they are, what their eligibility is, and move them on, mindful that we're working constantly across the country with organizations such as the Royal Canadian Legion, VETS Canada, Soldiers for Soldiers, and so on, because it really is a partnership with all of these not-for-profits and the communities, and there's a lot of great support from the communities as well.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Okay. Thank you very much.

At this point I've heard a lot about the pension for life option and I've seen, in a way, what's being included, but can you just speak to it a little bit more and give us more details as to what we can expect to be implemented as of April 2018?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think what you're ultimately getting is financial stability for people so that they won't just receive the monthly amount but will also have that tie to the government—and almost to the people of Canada—that says, “Thank you very much for what you did”.

There was a feeling with the lump sum that not only were some people taking on a lot more money than they could handle and expecting that it would last for the course of their lives, but also that they were being written off the ledger, to the effect that “You're done. We don't need to deal with you anymore.” That's what we heard time and again from veterans, and that's what they were looking for. Now they have the option.

If the lump sum works for them, fine. In fact we provide money for independent financial counselling. They get $500 if they want to go to somebody independent to help them make that decision, whether or not at that point in their lives they should go with the lump sum or with a monthly option. We really are encouraging the monthly option, because if you look at almost any scenario, they will get more if they take the monthly amount.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Mr. Chair, through you, I believe my colleague said that the Liberals' pension for life would come into existence on July 1, 2018. I'd like it on the record, because we are on the record here today, that it is actually 2019.

Is that correct, Minister?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes, April 1, 2019.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you for that correction.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

As a former educator and teacher, I recognize the importance and value of education. I think what we're offering at this point is much better than before. I know that a lot of money has gone into it since 2015, but can you tell us what's going to change for the education benefits in this next budget?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

It offers a lot of flexibility. Again, it's giving the benefit of the doubt to the applicant by saying, “You go and do what you think is best for you at this point in your life.” The ability to go back to university, to carry on to do a Ph.D., not only adds to your well-being as a person, but it can also help you with your employability.

I found the fellow we spoke to in Vancouver very interesting, because he had been through a heck of a lot and confided in us. Obviously, he's anonymous, but he had PTSD and other issues and he wanted to study it. He wanted to take it further, so he wanted to do a Ph.D. I think after that he intends to figure out how to help serve his fellow veterans who are also suffering similar conditions. That's a pretty great story.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Going back to one of the earlier questions, when we went back to the veterans' associations and asked how to move forward on this re-established lifelong pension as an option for wounded and injured veterans, many of the associations came to us and said, “Please don't go back to the Pension Act”—for exactly the reasons the minister indicated. It was a cookie-cutter approach. Only those who are most severely injured, with the highest level of injury, received sufficient funding so that they were financially whole. The vast majority of veterans have a very low level of disability, but if they have a significant issue, say a back issue or mental health issue, there wasn't enough there to keep them financially whole.

That's where even my predecessors mentioned to me to not go back to that, but to create a hybrid, to take the best of the Pension Act and the best of the new Veterans Charter, bring them together, and allow veterans to move forward. That's what we have been trying to formulate in this pension for life.

As the minister said, the additional pain and suffering component is a regular monthly connection between the Government of Canada to that veteran that says, “Thank you for what you've done. Thank you for your service. We recognize the sacrifice that you have endured for our nation.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Minister and Deputy, for coming.

I'd like to clarify something from an earlier question by my colleague Mr. Johns.

He referenced something from our party's platform, that what we have offered is not what we said we would do in the platform. I have the platform pledge in front of me right now. It says, “We will re-establish lifelong pensions as an option for our injured veterans”.

Does that say we will re-establish the same lifelong pension plan that existed before? Would any court of law say that's the same statement?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Are you asking me?

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes. What I'm saying is that I'm being told, “We will re-establish lifelong pensions as an option” means that we would—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Can we have order here?

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

It was just said that this meant that we would bring back the pension as it was before. Is it reasonable to say we have somehow broken our promise by not simply bringing back the old one? Or, would you say, based on what we've done, that we've kept that promise to re-establish lifelong pensions?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The pension for life is a monthly distributed pension for life.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

Would you say that we have kept our promise on that?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

It would appear to me that it certainly is the case, yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Minister.

We have heard concerns from many veterans about the time it takes to access medical records. Being a physician, I know what it's like getting medical records when I have patients from other provinces who aren't even involved with VAC. Even getting records from a patient's doctor's office to the emergency room sometimes takes some time.

What steps are we taking to close the gap between the Department of National Defence and VAC when it comes to information sharing?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thanks, Doug.

It was the direct order from the Prime Minister on the day he told me he'd be swearing me in the next day: to close the seam. Interestingly, it was something that my brother, who's a lieutenant commander in the navy and was acting commandant of the naval fleet school in CFB Esquimalt, had said to me months earlier. He said we had to do something, without either one of us knowing that I'd be here, because suddenly he was involved in a lot of human resource issues and it became evident that people were coming out and they were lost. Emmanuella was referring earlier to the transition being very difficult, and you've heard this from veterans. When you're in a very structured environment for a long period of time—20 to 25 years, let's say—and you know exactly how your day is going to go and where your benefits come from and everything, and suddenly you're thrust out into the world, and you don't know, and you have to reapply for everything, and you have to go see a new doctor, it just doesn't make any sense.

We call it convergence, as you all know, and that's what we're working on.

I would say right now that the Minister of National Defence and I meet about once every week or two on things that we can do to start putting that process into place. I was almost singularly looking at pension for life up until Christmas. Now it's the communicating of the pension for life, and bringing it before the House. But it's also convergence right now and backlog. Those are my biggest priorities.

With convergence, what we would like to have happen is that service men and women would never know they're moving from one department to another. They would simply be aware of the services and programs they're entitled to and that perhaps they're moving over to other services and programs.

This does involve some issues with privacy. These were set up with the best of intentions. People shouldn't be able to throw around your medical records, which makes all sorts of sense. So you have a whole series of legislation and regulations to ensure that people's privacy, when it comes to their medical records, is held carefully. However, in this instance it doesn't work, because we want to make sure it is seamless. So we are working with Treasury Board as well to make sure those systems are put in place.

We all sign onto Google's terms and conditions—maybe that's not the best example these days—and say, “You have permission to use my information.” In a much more controlled and secure manner within government, perhaps we can find something similar, where perhaps early on in your military career you can agree that you are willing to share your military records post-service with Veterans Affairs Canada.