Veterans Affairs Committee on March 20th, 2018

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Minister and Deputy Minister, for being here.

As we know, the new pension for life option, which is part of the planned spending in the 2018-2019 budget, could cost as much as $3.6 billion. This is a significant sum of money, but I think it's quite a bit less than what was promised to veterans by the party that is now in power, your party.

The 2015 Liberal Party platform said, “We will re-establish lifelong pensions as an option for our injured veterans”. So your party's document refers to the old lifelong pension that existed before the implementation of the new Veterans Charter. That is why the word “re-establish” was used, and not “instate” or “create”. The word was to “re-establish” it as it was before. It was clear and unequivocal language.

In a town hall meeting in Edmonton on February 1, the Prime Minister admitted that your government was still fighting veterans who are seeking the reinstatement of the lifelong pension, in court, “Because they're asking for more than we are able to give right now”.

My question is specifically about direct payments made to veterans—no other services or programs, just the direct monthly payments to veterans. If the old lifelong pension regime was actually reinstated, as the Liberal Party promised it would do, as you and your leader promised to do in the election, Minister, then how much more would it have cost compared to the watered-down lifetime pension program that you're delivering now?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I disagree with the member. What we said we would do is bring back a monthly payment option. In fact, I wish we didn't say “option” all the time, but we do, because technically that's true. There are a number of veterans for whom, later in life, the lump sum payment makes more sense financially.

We are nudging people, and this will nudge people, towards a monthly amount. We believe it needs to be monthly because there was something that didn't ring true to a lot of Canadians, and obviously to a lot of veterans, about the lump sum amount being the only option available. And that was this: it's a lot of money for a 25-or-30-year-old veteran coming out of Afghanistan suddenly to take on. If that's the only amount you get and you're not—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

You're saying that it's the same amount that was promised before 2006.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Actually, it builds on the point that I was making earlier.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Just straight-up payments, is it more or is it less?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

This gets exactly to the point that I was making earlier. More increasingly, this gets down—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm just asking a simple question. Is the answer yes or no?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'm giving you a very complicated answer—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Yes, you are.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

—which is that for every individual veteran, it will depend on their circumstances.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Sorry, Minister, I have a friend here, Mark Campbell. He served alongside Paul Franklin, has the same injuries from the same war, with the old system, and totally different benefits. There's a 40% difference when it comes to payments.

Minister, maybe you can explain this. It's just a simple question. Why are they getting less than somebody who fought in the same battle?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

It depends on the individual involved, sir. I can only say it so many times. There are some who will fall under the Pension Act of 1919 and there are some who will fall under the new Veterans Charter.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

This isn't what they were promised and what they expected, Minister.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

With the pension for life, we are giving a monthly pension to those who are unable to work, who are unable to re-establish themselves in society. In almost every case, they will do as well as, if not better than, they would do under the Pension Act of 1919.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I just wish the government would be more forthcoming.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Could we just have a conversation as opposed to arguing over each other, please?

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay, great.

In a letter to this committee, your department stated that there are “approximately 29,000 pending disability benefit applications (First Applications, Reassessment and Departmental Reviews). Of the 29,000 pending in the queue, approximately 9000 applications (First applications, Reassessments and Departmental Reviews) are over the service standard.”

Your government has now committed $42.8 million over two years to address the backlog in processing the increased number of claims. Was this dollar amount, $42.8 million over the two years, the amount that was officially requested by experts in the department to resolve the backlog?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

It is very difficult for us to gauge, to be honest with you, how much it will cost us to absorb that backlog. You only have the capacity to absorb so much money. We only have so many people trained and ready to go at any one time. I'll allow the deputy to speak further on this, but certainly we were very pleased with that amount. It is not going to happen quickly enough to my liking or, frankly, to the liking of any of those 9,000 people who are waiting an abnormal amount of time for the benefits and services that they're entitled to.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I know you're saying that it's not enough money to do that, but will this eliminate the backlog? Do you believe this amount of money will eliminate the backlog?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

The head of the union says it's definitely in the right direction and that it gives us a huge good start.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It was my understanding that they needed double to get it to zero, so that's—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I have not seen a figure that would ever put us at zero, to be honest with you.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

So what is the figure to get us to zero? There must be a number that you should be able to—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I am not aware of any number. I just know that $42.8 million gives us a good start.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay.

I think I'm running out of time and so my last question is this. We know we had 4,000 staff working in VAC in 2012. There were significant cuts by the Conservative government and 1,000 jobs were lost. You've rehired. When we do the math, we're still looking at being about 600 people short. You're introducing new programs, and we can't keep up with the programs that we're dealing with now before implementing new programs.

How many staff do you forecast we need to be able to deal with the backlog and implement the new programs?