Veterans Affairs Committee on June 7th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm sorry. We're out of time.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think we have to get beyond the idea of residential care, but I can—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Perhaps you could get back to us on that question.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

That's the most important question I had. I asked it a minute ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

He will get back to us.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

It's just a yes or no. Are you going to be—

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Inevitably we will get to PTSD again, I'm sure, but in regard to residential care, we can talk about that later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thanks for being with us today, Minister, to answer our questions on the estimates.

Currently we're doing a study on indigenous veterans and we know that much of the homeless population in Canada consists of veterans, and that many of them, especially in Montreal, where I live, are actually indigenous as well.

Right now, today, we have a round table. I know that we already mentioned this, but I'd like to know if we're including communities from all across the board and what we are expecting from this round table today.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We are indeed. There is representation from across the country, as I said, of some 70 organizations. The important thing, which will come out as everybody is talking to one another, is again the solutions that each one has found unique to their circumstances. I'm anxious to get back there and to spend as much time as I can there today.

We can talk about indigenous veterans, and there are particularities with indigenous care that are common across the country, but there are also specifics whether it be the north and what parts of the north, whether it be Winnipeg versus Saskatoon versus Halifax. That's why drawing upon local expertise is especially important. There are commonalities that people will reach and things that governments will learn from one another, and then there are some things that are extremely specific.

We don't have all the answers on that but what we can do is help support those who do.

That's why the family well-being fund is very important. I'm not keen on the name. I never have been because it's a bit innocuous, but really it is an innovation fund so that when you have great ideas, whether in a particular city or town or whatever, indigenous or otherwise, and they seem to be working, we can put money toward them to see whether or not they could work on a larger scale, to see if they are something that could perhaps work across the country or in similar communities. That gives us a tremendous advantage.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

I can also add that I appreciate the work you are doing in studying aboriginal veterans' issues, especially as many of our veterans, after extraordinary service in the Canadian Armed Forces, return to their communities which are often remote, and therefore the difficulty of providing them with a full suite of support is always a real challenge. The fact is thousands have served in both world wars, and in peacekeeping missions continuing to this day, so their problems are really unique.

It is terrific that we have the aboriginal veterans association, which is represented at the summit today. Aboriginal veterans are represented on all of the minister's advisory committees and substantially in the summits whether they be regional summits or the national summit. Their voice is very loud and clear in all of the outreach that we are doing with different veterans' communities.

With regard to service in the communities, we not only have our offices fully staffed but then are also able to use electronic means, whether between Veterans Affairs and the veterans or in fact between mental health practitioners. We are encouraging the health authorities across the country with whom we partner for the treatment of mental health. We have 4,000 mental health practitioners coast to coast who deal with veterans on a daily basis. We also have 10 stress injury clinics, including one residential at Ste. Anne's Hospital, leveraging telemedicine and telehealth. Whether the veteran be in a remote community, say, in northern Manitoba, or whether that serving member be on CFB Shilo, we can connect the psychiatrist, psychologist, and mental health nurse with them no matter where they are across the country.

We have to get better at that and up our game because no matter where these folks are, we need to provide them with a standard level of service.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much. That's really great to hear. It's obviously very important to make sure that all veterans have equal access to service, and this is one of the main issues. Hopefully we can come up with some good solutions today.

I know that $6.5 million has been set aside for the caregiver recognition benefit, and another $4.9 million for education and training, and there are many other benefits that are included in the estimates.

I'd just like to know if there is a specific plan on how we are intending on getting his out to the public to make sure that every veteran and their family benefits from this program.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I think the first thing we've done is attempt to change the culture of our front-line staff, which is something I think we talked about. I went to Charlottetown on day two, I think, and spoke to them. I think I might have mentioned this to the committee the last time I appeared here, but it's important to reiterate that we want them to be proactive. Don't hide the benefit of service because we're looking after the bottom line. Obviously, we want to keep an eye on that, but it's really important that we put the benefits and services in place to make sure people can avail themselves of them, right?

We're letting our front-line staff know to ask the questions they need to ask to make sure the veteran or caregiver or family member is availing themselves of everything we're working hard to fund for them. Hopefully, that culture change.... Actually, it's not hopefully: that culture change is taking effect, because word has gotten out.

There are days that, as minister of this department, I can tell you that Facebook and Twitter are the bane of my existence, but it can be very effective on the flip side in getting the word out; and the word has gotten out that (a) these new benefits and services are available, and (b) we will work hard to make sure you get them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Eyolfson, you have six minutes

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Welcome back, Minister and Deputy Minister.

I'm assuming we're over our jet lag from Korea. I was honoured to be on that trip with you and Mr. Johns and Mr. McColeman. It was a great experience.

On the study of various transitions, we identified something that, although it is a policy in the Canadian Armed Forces, has a direct effect on veterans. You being, of course, the associate minister of defence, I thought this was germane.

We talked about the concept of universality of service and how that seemed to be having a great deal of negative effect on a lot of veterans who might have been able to serve in some capacity, if not a 100% deployable capacity. Our recommendation in our report on transition was that the CAF apply a measure of flexibility to the concept of universality of service for selected members.

From the defence department we received a reply that they were going to review this and compare jurisdictions that have something like it, like the United States, Australia, and New Zealand. Have you been able to take any steps on it so far? Have you been able to review this or have any updates from your point of view on this?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'll speak briefly to it, and then I'll have the deputy speak to it. I have spoken with the chief of the defence staff, and I think it's fair to say that he understands the importance. Universality of service is something that's kind of accorded to the military, and a former chief of defence staff would probably be better to speak to that than I.

However, seeing if we can attempt some flexibility here is something I think General Vance is looking at, because, ultimately, what that can provide us is putting the best people in the best places.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

If we have somebody who's unable to physically serve or has a particular mental capacity in which they can do some things but not others, is there room within the Canadian Armed Forces for them to do some things but not others? Is that possible? That is something we're deep-diving into, and he's open to it. Would that be fair to say?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Again, I don't want to go outside of my lane, having worn the uniform before. It's General Vance's lane, but I would say that what he's coming to grips with is the fact that, for some illnesses and injuries—and you have a medical background—the access to medical care, if you're on a deployment, becomes a bit of a challenge. So, perhaps someone with an ailment could not be deployed, say, to a place on the other side of the world but could fulfill many functions here at home.

That is what I think the Canadian Armed Forces is coming to grips with. You have folks who are extremely talented—in fact, there's been millions of dollars of investment in the skills, the talents—and these folks have proven leadership skills, proven dedication, and yet because of whatever ailment, we cannot put them into an austere environment, say, in Africa or South Asia without a physician or a complete medical practice around them; and yet they can fulfill extraordinary roles for us here in the country, and I think that's what he's dealing with now, sir.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much. Let's change gears.

We've been hearing a lot about challenges veterans face with service delivery in rural and remote areas. Frequently, a lot of that is due to lack of physicians in a lot of these areas. It's not something that's unique to veterans. It's certainly hard to find a family doctor for anyone who lives in a small town in say northern Manitoba or Saskatchewan. It's even harder to find physicians who would be trained to deal with some of the unique aspects of veterans, such as PTSD and that sort of thing.

Could you speak to the investments from the estimates to address this?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Walter is whispering in my ear and this is something that we've heard particularly acutely in Belleville and in the Kingston area, although I think it applies to anywhere across the country. It just happens that they seem to be particularly vocal there. Access to regular physicians is part of a larger issue, and not just in remote and rural areas. Friends of mine who have lived in Toronto for 10-plus years don't have a regular family doctor and continue to rely on walk-in clinics. It's increasingly difficult to find a GP in this country. What I won't abide by and what we're attempting to rectify is having our veterans discriminated against by doctors because they don't want to have to fill out 40 pages of paperwork.

If veterans are having an even more difficult time than most Canadians finding a regular family physician, then we have a problem. We're attempting to see how we can streamline that and make things easier. It gets into the broader transition piece as well. If somebody had a regular family doctor or a regular doctor while they were in the military, how can we make that transition a little easier once they leave? Right now it's not only getting a different doctor, it's finding a different doctor. Then it's the file transfer. It's a lot to pile on. Where can we ease that? I think that's top of the list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Brassard, you have six minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Minister, thanks for being here. Time is short so I'm going to ask some very pointed questions and I would like some pointed answers to them.

What is the utilization rate of the veterans emergency fund today?