Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 20th, 2018

[Faith McIntyre]

Thank you very much for the question. The short answer is no.

It's a population where in certain instances, as you've said, they don't want to be found. They're hard to find. We've had stories of organizations that have found individuals living in the woods or on a boat. Again, it's a matter of working together and finding the contacts. If we find an individual who might know of them, who may have served with them, or who perhaps can reach out to a family member or can help identify a location.... It's very much a puzzle at times and it's about putting the pieces together.

As I said earlier, the data points on homeless vets and vets at risk are not easily available, so we would not have that information to provide.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

If there are vets who are being followed, are there any red flags in the files that might tell you that this is someone who might be at risk? If you have someone who has been followed and has a number of missed appointments, say, or there are reports of missing pills, are there any protocols or any patterns you see that give you red flags to tell you that you have to go searching for that gentleman?

[Faith McIntyre]

I'll turn that question over to Robert.

[Robert Tomljenovic]

Sure. I'm just hoping that I understand the question.

For us, in terms of red flags in the field—and certainly case managers will look for this—we look for things such as a veteran who is couch-surfing. If they have no real stable housing and they're having difficulties meeting their monthly financial obligations, then it raises those red flags, where we'll say, “Let's see what we can do with this veteran,” and we'll ask what's going on in the background.

There has been no case—we hope, anyway—that.... When we see those red flags, it doesn't get to the point where we lose them at that point and they become homeless. We hope that by working with the case manager and the community and whatnot we can assist with this, whether that means some sort of mental health treatment or addressing this in terms of addictions or gambling, but as soon as there's a flag that there's potential homelessness, we certainly do pay attention. I would expect the case manager to follow up a little more and just make sure that we don't lose them or that they fall off the grid.

I hope that answers your question.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes it does. Thank you. That was exactly the answer I was looking for.

[Robert Tomljenovic]

Okay.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

We also heard from some witnesses at other studies when they referred to veterans that some veterans had a combination of things. There was mental illness, but also they're very angry with the system—the military, the government, VAC, all of these things—and some of them, if found, are actually refusing help.

That sounds like a tremendous challenge. Is there an approach to these vets, the ones who have been found but who we're having trouble to convince to take the help that [Technical difficulty—Editor]

I'll leave it up to both of you if you have an insight into this.

[Robert Tomljenovic]

Sure.

That comment is dead-on. In my offices we've seen veterans who have been identified as being very hesitant to either come into the office or speak to—quote, unquote—a government official. In those instances, we don't rush. The first thing we need to do is build trust with a veteran who has that sort of paranoia with the department, or who, for whatever reason, has had a bad experience in terms of either his military or personal life.

We don't rush case management. We don't rush what we call developing a case plan and goals. The immediate need there is to build trust, even if that means we visit the veteran every day for five to 10 minutes, maybe with a community worker, if the veteran has one.

Until that trust is built, it's very difficult for them to engage. It doesn't always happen. I would say it's a small percentage of our veterans who we find homeless, but it does happen. When we do, we have to approach it with sensitivity. Really, at the end of the day it's up to the case manager to ensure they're building that trust so the veteran can trust that we're there to help.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have 20 seconds.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I don't think I can do anything meaningful there.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Okay.

Mr. Johns.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to you both for your important report and for your hard work at Veterans Affairs.

I want to begin with the CBC report from November 19. I'd also like to thank Murray Brewster for his years of solid reporting on all veterans-related issues along with his other fine work.

To quote from Mr. Brewster's story on November 19, he said:

Both Veterans Emergency Transition Services Canada (VETS Canada) and the Royal Canadian Legion report an increase in the number of cases being referred to them directly by the department, which is either unable—or unwilling—to tap into the federal treasury.

Debbie Lowther from VETS Canada, which is a fantastic organization, said, “They're referring people to us for things like rent.”

My question is simple. Is this true? Is Veterans Affairs Canada referring veterans in need of emergency housing and/or rent to third parties for service?

[Robert Tomljenovic]

I can speak to how we've been utilizing the fund here.

As you know, the fund is there really for urgent and unforeseen situations. If we are approached by someone with a need, we will look at it and see what we can do.

I did mention before, however, that there are instances where we work collaboratively with other partners. For example, the Legion has always played a key role in that regard.

I can give you an idea. We do fund, for example, first and last months' rent through the VEF if the veteran finds themself in crisis and in need of housing. We will then sometimes call upon the Legion. They're wonderful here in the Hamilton area, which is one of my areas. They've developed these apartment kits that are full of all sorts of things that someone could use when they first move in. So in that regard, we do reach out to other providers.

As I said, it's a community-based approach. Veterans Affairs can't do the work on their own. They really do rely on the support of others. That's just an example of when we—

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Thank you.

When you're determining the amount of money for a veteran in need, are you waiting until they're in crisis, until they're getting an eviction notice? How do you determine when you're going to help them out?

What do you do in high markets? I've heard from veterans on the west coast who aren't getting the amount they need. They're living in a shoebox with their kids, and it's not adequate.

Can you respond to that?

[Robert Tomljenovic]

To be honest, because my area is in southwestern Ontario, I just in all good faith couldn't comment about the west and that situation.

I can tell you that from our standpoint, we don't want someone to get into a crisis situation, so it's very similar to looking for red flags—someone who might have a gambling issue or addiction issue. We try to prevent that, for example, through reaching out with the community and getting the veteran the supports they need, or maybe getting them to an in-patient program if it has to do with their mental health.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I'm talking about people who don't have those issues, who are just trying to find a roof over their heads.

As we know, the veterans emergency fund was introduced in the last federal budget. It provides up to $1 million for emergency financial support for veterans, their families and survivors whose well-being is at risk due to an urgent and unexpected situation.

However, you'll also no doubt know that this government is only meeting 12 of its 24 own service standards. The glaring failure, of course, seems to be an inability to answer the phone in less than two minutes. There are also backlogs for processing applications to nearly every program offered by the department.

As you know, exactly two weeks ago, Parliament debated an NDP motion to recycle all lapsed spending at Veterans Affairs to improve service to Canada's veterans until all 24 service standards are met. My esteemed colleagues at this table, and indeed all members present, voted in support of this motion. It passed unanimously: 301 to zero. If implemented, this motion would provide an average of $124 million per year to improve services to Canada's veterans. That's enough to hire more than 5,000 case managers in the first year, which may not be possible, but should provide some idea of the scale of this wasted resource.

My question is this. If that motion were adopted as policy for the lapsed spending from this fiscal year to the next fiscal year, do you think this would speed up the approval process for applications to the veterans emergency fund?

[Robert Tomljenovic]

Just so you know some figures with regard to the veterans emergency fund, as of November 15, there have been 416 approvals, and roughly $676,519 has been put out.

From my experience, we have been quite efficient. We take it seriously when an emergency fund application comes through or a veteran calls in for the fund. We have a fairly quick turnaround time on that.

Certainly we are still working towards increasing our case management capacity in some parts of the country that are having a little more difficulty with staffing than others. That will always benefit everyone in terms of improving service delivery.

I will tell you that when a crisis does come in, it becomes the top urgent issue. We try to deal with that right away.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have 10 seconds.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Okay.

From the experience of your case managers and what you've heard from other sources, do you know of any special needs that veterans have that other Canadians do not which may lead to a higher level of homelessness?

[Robert Tomljenovic]

I would say that some of the big things certainly are things that they witnessed overseas, dealing with, as you know, post-traumatic stress disorder. As a result, we have a lot of other issues that can come through from there, whether it's addictions and that.

We're finding that some of our clients are dealing with quite complex issues, not just mental health but physical injuries and addictions, which lead to financial crisis, family issues. We're finding that our case managers are working to assist them in a whole multitude of areas.

In that regard, unfortunately, we have veterans who are dealing with a lot more than sometimes the general population just because of circumstances they've found themselves in. In serving overseas and witnessing all sorts of atrocities, and/or just being injured, not just by going overseas but in the line of duty, there's a high risk for injury.

In that aspect, for me, that's the main difference that sets them apart from other Canadians.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I want to thank both of you for your presentations and the opportunity to ask and receive answers.

First of all, I can't say enough about organizations like VAC and the Legion. They are 24-7. That's impressive. They don't stop at five o'clock Friday night and start again Monday morning. I think that's so important. In seeing over 70 individuals at this round table, I've heard feedback that was extremely positive.

Ms. McIntyre, you mentioned that after the discussion, you mapped out a plan. Can you focus on the three main things that came out of that mapping?

[Faith McIntyre]

Sure. Thank you very much for the question.

Indeed we were very pleased with the conversation, but it was just a beginning. As I said, working together collaboratively on veterans homelessness with all of these organizations is important, and we have to keep that momentum going forward.

One of the key pieces of the plan was the interactive map, which we went live with. There are over 200 organizations currently on this map, which demonstrates from across the whole country where there are organizations that are able to assist and support veterans. That's available to the public on our website, which was a key deliverable.

We are also working on launching our strategy, Coming Home, on homelessness. We'll take information from all of these organizations in that round table, focusing on themes such as as leading, finding, assisting and preventing.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Can you send us that mapping information, if we don't have it, please?