Veterans Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2020

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

MP Ruff, please, you have five minutes.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I'm going to be a bit of a broken record here.

We keep coming back to the challenges associated with the backlogs. This has been increasing now for.... I fully acknowledge the good news side of the story that we're getting more benefits out there, but I want to understand the plan.

I've worked for some former general officers, and if I went back to them and said, “Hey, boss, it's going to be two years before I get the plan for you and here's the timeline; we're going to solve it quickly”, I'm pretty sure you can guess how quickly I'd get the back end torn out of me.

When would that plan be available for this committee? This is really why we're here. It's to help you, to help the department, get the necessary resources and to help the veterans out so they have that transparency and understanding. As much as they're good soldiers, former veterans, if they're not complaining, sometimes your spidey sense goes off. However, ultimately we're there to help them. Once they understand the plan—and through mission command terminology—they will 100% be on board and be willing to accept it.

Right now I think the frustration is that they don't know when this is going to get resolved.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

I really appreciate the question.

Again, from a military culture, turning around something into a plan makes absolute sense. We will turn that around as quickly as we can. Within the month, we should be able to take these four domains that I talked about—the idea of not only staffing but digitization, sorting out the process, as well as integrated teams, and combine that with the 12 action areas Mr. Christopher laid out to you, also with regard to the projection in the future.

The only thing we cannot predict is the tempo of the Canadian Armed Forces tomorrow. We cannot predict the number of men and women who are going to leave the forces, nor can we predict their injuries. That's the only thing we don't control. It's the volume of the intake.

However, we can use the existing information that we have. I say that because back in 2015 we predicted that by 2019 we would have 9,700 and some case-managed veterans. Today we're north of 13,000. The reality is that we could not be accurate. That's the nature of the business.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

It's normal good planning. I'm sure whoever the planners are in your department are constantly revising those numbers. When the situation changes, you revise the plan, but we need the plan.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Yes.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Within a month we'll have that plan, then. That plan will be available to this committee and to the general public.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Absolutely. Again, going back to Madam Wagantall's point, we want to be transparent.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Perfect.

Also, the plan will include timelines and when you can anticipate, to the best of your ability, resolving some of these issues.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

We will, based upon the best knowledge we have.

[Alex Ruff, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Super.

That's all I have.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Thank you for that, General.

That was a lot better than the word salads we were hearing from the minister and frankly some of the other rhetoric. My colleague said that if this is the most important issue on the minister's agenda, then action should be taken.

What's most disappointing, frankly, is having been here to see the history of this particular issue. It goes back to 2017, when it was really first recognized. It's taken us three full years. This is 2020. Some of the other people who are senior in your management team promised us we would have a plan. We were told that in 2017.

As my colleague said, we have the responsibility as the official opposition here at committee to not ask the comfortable questions, but the uncomfortable questions. I know you appreciate the dynamic of what we are charged to do as parliamentarians.

I look back three years and I think of why the promises were unkept during those three years. For how many years have you been at the helm, sir?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

It's five and a half years.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

It goes back to the days of one of my colleagues—my good friend—being the minister. I'm wondering if you can just give us a general observation as to why we have waited this long.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

He hasn't left you much time, General, so just very briefly....

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

I'll just say that we'll put the plan together and see what we can do in terms of digitizing and working on integrated.... We are absolutely pleased with the hard work of our employees across the board. We will develop the plan.

Again, I've been responsible from back in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018, to now. I regret that the plan was not in front of you in 2017.

I'm pleased to be able to say, however—and maybe Rick can wade in here—that in about 2015-16 we used to produce about 2,500 decisions a month. Now we're at 5,000 decisions a month. All of the work we've put together already is doubling production and it's not enough. I need 6,000 decisions a month. Again, if there's another tsunami of claims, I might need 7,000 claims a month.

I cannot hire and train employees fast enough, so I need to rely on digitization.

Rick.

[Rick Christopher]

Historically, intake has outstripped our ability to produce. It was by a small margin back in 2015-16 and the intake has continued to grow.

It's obvious that to bring people in and train them to deal with these fluctuations is not enough. The lag to get people on board and trained is too long. That's part of the solution, but we really need to simplify and streamline how we deal with these claims.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

We have about two minutes. If you have a question that would take about a minute, I need a minute at the end for future business. I don't know if you have a very brief question and answer.

Sean.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. McColeman has made a couple of assertions in his question that I'd like you to face head on. He accused the department of mismanagement and he asserted, as if it's true, that the problem of the backlog suddenly arose in 2017.

Could you address those two points?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Please be very brief.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

When I began my tenure we saw this notion of what I called a perfect storm. We had a very high operational tempo in the Canadian Armed Forces and the combat mission was coming to a close. Many more veterans were presenting, and the challenge was that there was a latency. They presented with a mental health injury further on, combined with the reality of the new veterans charter coming in and people recognizing shortcomings across the board in the new veterans charter.

There needed to be improvements to the suite of benefits, combined with, at the time, the deficit reduction program where the department contributed 35%, and in some areas 40%, of staffing and operations and maintenance. All these things combined at a time when the troops were coming in, so we have done what we can, as Rick Christopher mentioned, to address this backlog with more production, but also using different tools.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

I want to close by thanking all of you for being here today and helping us with.... I was just about to say “our study”. I forgot you were here with us last week. We're here to talk about estimates today.

If I can indulge the committee just for a moment—I promise it'll be about 30 seconds—I'll update everybody. The next meeting is March 12. It's the second of four meetings on the backlog. April 2, if we can jump ahead a bit, will be the beginning of the second study, federal supports and services to Canada's veterans, caregivers and families. If we can have witness lists for that study by Monday, March 16 at 4 p.m., and please, if you could all rank your lists in order of priority it helps the clerk set up the witness list.

Finally, we need to set a deadline for the receipt of briefs in relation to the backlog study. The analysts have recommended March 31, and that the text not exceed 2,000 words. That can all be submitted electronically. Is there any issue with any of those deadlines?

Seeing none, thank you very much, everybody.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Do we have any insight on when the veterans ombudsman is going to be available to speak to the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Yes, the veterans ombudsman is appearing March 26 on your motion and then March 31 on the backlog study.

Thank you very much, everybody.

The meeting is adjourned.