Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 27th, 2020

[Steven Harris]

I can identify that 7% of the over 300 employees that we've hired so far have Canadian Armed Forces experience. We went back and looked through the applications. There is a self-declaration piece, and some Canadian Armed Forces members choose not to self-declare as a veteran working in the Canadian Armed Forces group. We've gone back and looked into it, and it may not have included all of their experience in the application that they put into us from a Canadian Armed Forces perspective, but it's at least 7%, and I expect it's a little bit higher than that.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

If I may, I'll also remind that—

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

General, I was just about to get into another line of questioning. I was on mute and I apologize for that. If there's any more information I need, I'll certainly follow up with you.

One of the things that the PBO identified was the need to move to a more digitized process, a simplification of the application benefit process for our veterans.

I know this has been talked about for years. The veterans ombudsman and the DND ombudsman have spoken about this for years. Where are we on this simplified digital process for veterans and their families to file application claims to make it easier to receive those benefits?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Thanks so much for that question, because what we have found....Thank goodness we went through the turmoil of implementing pension for life, because for the first time we have an end-to-end digital platform.

What we found in that first year—and Steven, just roll in here and correct me whenever you want—was that about 50% of our applications were still coming in paper form last year. Because of COVID and because of the requirement to lean on the digital solution, I think we're into the 70th percentile now in terms of a digital platform, and what we're working closely on with the Canadian Armed Forces but also with Library and Archives Canada is how to digitize all of their analog files so that our adjudicators can get access much more quickly.

[Steven Harris]

You're quite right, Deputy. About 75% since April 1 have been coming in as a digital application or through My VAC Account and the online process that we put there, through guided web forms that help veterans walk through each step of that process and make sure they fill in all the information and minimize the number of incomplete applications.

Of course, there are still ways in which we support those veterans who don't or can't use that kind of digital approach. We want to make sure that we are responding to the needs of all veterans in the way that they may wish to submit their applications. Obviously we're pushing folks to digital, because it is the easiest way for them to apply and the easiest way to make sure that they include all the information that's required.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Sir, Steven has such a tough job, as did Michel before him, because no matter how they push this, what I'm trying to tell them is that just as when I do my taxes and I use TurboTax, I want to see “TurboVet”—something that is intuitive, that is easy to navigate and that asks the right questions. You just fill in the blanks and move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about 20 seconds.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Gentlemen, I want to thank you for your time today. Let's move on to the next questioner.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Up next, we have MP Fillmore.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you very much, Chair.

General Natynczyk and Mr. Harris, it's great to see you again. It's nice to be with you and the rest of the committee.

I think the numbers tell a story, a story of the success of the reinvestment in and the rebuilding of VAC after a difficult decade. Between 2015-16 and 2019-20, the number of applications grew by 40%. During that same five-year period, the number of applications processed by the department rose by 35%, so there was a tremendous increase in applications and a tremendous increase in capacity to process, which falls, however, a bit short of the growth in applications, granted.

VAC service standards indicate that in normal circumstances, 80% of decisions should be made in the first 16 weeks from when an application is made. We've heard a lot about the necessity for more staff and more streamlined decision-making, but I think we also need to have a better understanding of the specific reason that a claim might not meet that standard beyond the bureaucratic people power issue.

I was wondering if you could describe what normal circumstances are and whether there has been a time when VAC has had the pleasure or the privilege of normal circumstances.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Sir, when I showed up in this new posting that was Veterans Affairs, I looked at the history books and I saw that the first backlog in VAC happened in the early 1920s.

If you look, you'll see there's a history in the Veterans Charter, and it talks about the massive problem of the backlog in 1925. That's just to say that we are all hands on deck working hard in order to clear the backlog right now.

One of our challenges that I find, and I'll ask Steven to wade in here, is that out of an abundance of compassion, we accept incomplete applications. They may lack a diagnosis or lack all kinds of things, but our people are so committed and are so bound and determined that they get back to that veteran and ask for the information, because it's not there. Again, working with the Canadian Armed Forces and working with Library and Archives Canada, they are looking through these huge medical files and trying to find the reason for the claim.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay, thank you.

I'll repeat what I said back in March, which is that long wait times are not a symptom of a problem. Of course we must address the wait times and improve them, but they're actually a symptom of the great success of the programs that are being offered, and I believe that to be the truth.

In the moments I have left, I want to flip over to gender. We also read that for the average female client, that application takes about three and a half weeks longer than it does for male clients. I wonder if there is any context you could bring to what might be at work there and how we could do better.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

We appreciate the work of the ombudsperson who has actually led us to this point. As we drill down to it—and you should be aware that we have posted three summits focused on women veteran issues in order to understand this even more and that the minister approved the creation of an office for women veterans and LGBTQ2 veterans as well, and we've just had another seminar there—we are learning more.

I'll ask Steven to amplify what we've learned.

[Steven Harris]

Thanks.

What we have seen is that the number of applications from women veterans over the course of the last little while is a little bit above what we would see normally from their representation in the Canadian Armed Forces.

About 16% of the applications with us at the moment come from women veterans, and they do wait a little bit longer. It has been noted both by the ombudsman and in our internal reviews that they wait a little bit longer.

We are currently undertaking reviews of the program to better understand from a GBA+ point of view how our current practices may have impacted that, and what we need to do to ensure equitable treatment for everybody across the board.

When we see large-scale applications that are often specific to male veterans, we build up patterns and approaches that recognize those patterns and we make decisions much more easily for things that are common to us. When women veterans have a condition that may differ from the traditional pattern of a male veteran, that case ends up being looked at differently in the system. We need to adjust the system so that they have the same approach, standard of treatment and outcome. We have work in progress to ensure we're aware of that. We're monitoring very closely the length of time it takes for women veterans' applications to be processed, and we're making adjustments to make sure we can address that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we go over to MP Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The challenges you are facing are not just huge, but also extremely important. It all hinges on human resources. I was a manager for 20 years before becoming a member of Parliament, so we would have plenty to talk about. My understanding is that the solution lies in human resources, in staff recruitment. You need more hands on deck. Your so-called battle must be fought on the human resources front. Unfortunately, try as I might, I have a hard time believing that you will overcome this.

You mentioned the backlog of the 1920s. That surprised me.

General Natynczyk, you said you accept incomplete applications.

In light of that, I will repeat my question. Is it an option for the department to consider the possibility of pre-approving all pending claims? Could the department assess the positive or negative impact of that measure, as well as the cost and spending implications?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Thank you very much for the question.

As we move forward with the mandate that the minister has received, automatic approvals of claims are in that mandate. You will see the mandate commitment is to look at automatic approvals for the most common injuries and illnesses, such as mental health and musculoskeletal injuries. We are obviously looking at what is in the mandate letter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

You have only about five seconds left, so I'm going to say that's time, sir, if that's okay.

We will go on to MP Blaney for two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to start with a clarifying question.

Earlier we talked about the fact that a lot of veterans are challenged right now with COVID-19 by not being able to get to a doctor, so they are not able to fill in their applications. We have seen a distinct drop in applications—about a 50% drop, I understand. It sounds, though, that you are trying to make way for those applications to get in. Even if they apply, you will take the documentation, and then they can add the rest of the medical aspects later.

How is that working? I say thank you to my former colleague, Mr. Desilets, but how is that working? Is there a way to have a pre-approval process during this time to make sure people are getting the resources they need to survive?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Thanks very much.

We are accepting applications for which a diagnosis might follow or for which, rather than a physician or a psychiatrist, a nurse or other medical professional might be able to fill out the paperwork, again working with medical professionals across all of the provinces in order to expedite the claim process in the department. At the same time, with regard to mental health injuries, we have our Veterans Affairs assistance service, which is again very much a triage capability that is open to not only the veteran but to veterans' families and associates in order to expedite treatment, or access to treatment, across the board.

I'll ask Steven to drill down a bit more in terms of what we're doing.

[Steven Harris]

That's exactly it. A medical assessment doesn't necessarily need to accompany the application when it comes in. Even during this period of time, when somebody might not be able to access a physician to get some kind of diagnosis, they are still able to apply. We do still encourage veterans, when they have any need, to come forward and make an application at that point in time. If that documentation needs to follow because they were unable to get to a physician, it can follow later.

What we've done is extend the period of time that we would wait—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Can I just get one clarifying part, though? Are there any resources tied to that? It's great that the application is happening, but what about actually getting the money to live?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's time, but I'll allow for a very quick answer.

[Steven Harris]

The legislation requires us to go through the stages of the adjudication piece, so we must make the service attribution and the assessment related to that. There is not an opportunity at this stage to make any kind of pre-approval, according to our legislation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you—