Evidence of meeting #25 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was museum.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Chair. Thank you to our tremendous witnesses.
This has been a really interesting discussion. I would like to go around the horn and ask a question about the museum of war as a mechanism to achieve commemoration. It's obviously an institution of national significance, and it's one that is situated very near to my riding. I have a number of constituents who work there. I'm really interested in getting the reflection of this learned group of witnesses on the successes and areas of potential improvement of the museum in terms of how it achieves the betterment of Canadian commemoration,
Perhaps we could start with Corrine, then Lee, then over to Sean and finally to James.
5:05 p.m.
Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel, The Halifax Rifles
I had a really good experience working with the War Museum when we launched. The organization I worked with was Visit Flanders. I was a Canadian representative for them. We wanted to launch their Passchendaele 100 program, and they could not have been more accommodating. They helped us do a press conference. They hosted a reception for us with certain stakeholders. I found it them be a great asset.
They also have a loans program with regionally specific artifacts. For example, at the army museum at the Halifax Citadel, when we know we have a particular former service member from the area and/or we have a particular anniversary coming up, we can put in a request for a particular artifact. We'll display it. Some people may have seen lately that we had a special type of bagpipes from the First World War. They've been quite helpful with those kinds of things.
5:05 p.m.
Associate Professor of History, Gregg Centre for the Studies of War and Society, University of New Brunswick, As an Individual
It's a powerful question, and it's a tricky issue because you raise the challenge of differentiating between history and education versus commemoration.
I'm sure you are familiar with the War Museum mandate. They are not technically in the pure commemoration game. They are in the business of educating and informing Canadians about Canada's wartime past, including the recent past, and they have to walk that line. I have to do that myself, teaching in a university.
There is a time and a place for commemoration; there is a time and a place for learning, but as I mentioned before, now is a time of learning in order to expand our commemorative activity. I think the War Museum has an important role to play as one of many national and regional institutions that can help add firepower to this fight.
Sean's work with Historica Canada and the Memory Project is one way to do that. The War Museum's key contribution is their website, which makes primary documents available for students and the general public so that they can learn about the past. That is a powerful and important learning tool online, and also their data bank of interviews and oral histories. They have something in the order of 500 oral histories banked. That constitutes an important source for us to build out the story of Canadian military service. They are a critical partner.
5:05 p.m.
Master Corporal (retired), As an Individual
Most communities that I've been in have a museum of some sort. The Canadian War Museum has more than enough artifacts. The last time I was there was 1975. I think the one thing that stood out in my mind was that the one medal missing from the medals room was my dad's from Belgian Congo.
I think there's an opportunity for the museums of this country to work with the War Museum and have mobile museums. Bring those museum pieces to the museums of every community. It doesn't have to be at Remembrance Day. It doesn't have to be Remembrance month. Remembrance is when it arrives.
We have a class A museum in my community. There's a room specifically designed for something that they want to show off. This is an educational opportunity that can go year-round. If the museum has the resources and the artifacts to deliver to the museums around the country, the living history with video and those artifacts is an impactful piece for everybody.
Kids get to see things for the first time that they might not see any other time.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much. I'm afraid that's your time.
Up next we have MP Wagantall for five minutes, please.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you so much, Chair.
Mr. Smith, I have to admit I didn't know anything about the Battle of Medak Pocket. I just googled it and started reading. Oh, my word.
There are two paragraphs here I would like to read:
The battle would change the face of peacekeeping, and influence how the Canadian military approached post-traumatic stress disorder. But as the soldiers returned home, the public was learning of the torture and death of a teenager at the hands of Canadian soldiers in Somalia. The violence of Medak raised questions about peacekeeping the government didn't want to answer.
I have quite a heart for what went on in Somalia and the whole issues around mefloquine, the inquiry and the disbanding of the Canadian Airborne. It hugely impacted the response of our government even in this case as well.
As hard as it may be to talk about, how does that make you feel when you realize that political implications often end up being the reason that you're in the situation you're facing today in regard to educating our youth?
5:10 p.m.
Master Corporal (retired), As an Individual
I lived through that. I was working in Land Force Western Area headquarters during the Medak Pocket Operation when I was posted in Edmonton. We had so many updates on what was going on with the troops over there. You're right. At the time we were also dealing with Somalia, and I was quite literally ordered not to wear my uniform to work because we didn't want to leave that impression on the general public. The military just shouldn't be seen.
It hit us hard. Then, with the disbanding of the regiment, I can't even describe how we felt other than unneeded. It was the most heart-wrenching moment of my life that I served my country because of a family of service, and suddenly they didn't want to talk about you because there's bad stuff happening in the public. It was dark.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you for sharing that.
I certainly hope that there will be opportunity to correct the record on a few of these things.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
A lot of them.
Thank you so much for being willing to be here today. I deeply appreciate that.
I'm going to comment to my friend from the salad bowl wanting to see things increased in Ottawa.
This is something that I think needs to be heard. I'm from Saskatchewan. This is a huge country, and we do not have access to Ottawa. I have had two school groups come to Ottawa so I could show them the Hill. It costs a fortune; you can go to Paris for what it costs to go from my home area to Ottawa. I would highly encourage anything that we can do. If you are concerned about reaching our youth, we need to give them hands-on experiences like Mr. Smith was talking about, to be able to see and hear.
I can tell you, a lot of those who served in the Battle of the Atlantic were from my province. Prairie people are great sailors. I would just like to say that I'm not. I was on the HMCS Fredericton, and it was the worst experience of my life, so it wouldn't be me, but we need to reach out across this whole nation far more than we are and be very proud of what our armed forces have done, and let our young people know that.
That's just my affirmation of that.
I would like some comments on that. Mr. McMullin, in your conversations around these ones who have been missed out, we need to hear their stories. You've talked about a lot of them. How do we get that on record in the way that we need it done?
5:10 p.m.
Major (retired), As an Individual
I don't really know. My dad never talked much about the military. We talk about military museums. I've been to the one in Mons, Belgium. It's probably the nicest museum in the world, and the smallest.
How do I get them? I wrote books. I have books here. I'm writing all the time. I give them away. I've sent them to Cape Breton, a whole book on servicemen.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Sir, I would like a copy of every one of your books, and I would love to have all those placemats, if you still have them available, for restaurants.
5:10 p.m.
Major (retired), As an Individual
I'll send you copies. I only have one here. Whoever gets it will have to make one for everybody.
5:10 p.m.
Major (retired), As an Individual
I'll just go quickly. The First World War and John Bernard Croak, his book, where he's buried...airmen from Cape Breton who lost their lives in the war, and there are some from New Waterford....
5:10 p.m.
Major (retired), As an Individual
There are people who are not in the Book of Remembrance, and the list goes on. Yes, I'll send you a copy, but I can't send one to everybody there.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
That's understood. We'll make sure everyone gets a copy. Thanks so much.
5:15 p.m.
Major (retired), As an Individual
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
May 10th, 2021 / 5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS
Thanks, Chair. I'm going to direct the first of my questions to Honorary Lieutenant-Colonel Corinne MacLellan.
In full disclosure to my colleagues on the committee, Corinne and I are friends. We came to know each other through the project that she discussed, The Last Steps. Corinne, I wanted to use your honorary rank and title. Two years ago, when I heard you had been granted that, it just felt so right. I was so proud. I just want to use it every time I can.
Congratulations again.