Veterans Affairs Committee on May 10th, 2021

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

You're going to wear that rank out. I know you're so busy just doing everything you can all the time.

To my colleagues, please google “Last Steps Memorial Arch” and take a look at the work—the Halifax arch, the Passchendaele arch. They're remarkable. I liked how you described them as portals connecting the two sides of the ocean.

You've also raised a number of times the army museum at the Halifax Citadel here in Halifax. I would encourage members also, if you have a spare minute, to google it, or better yet visit the army museum there. It covers the entire military history of Canada, with incredible relics and artifacts, coming right up to contemporary wars. Another friend, an Afghanistan war veteran, Jessica Wiebe, is an artist. She has an exhibit in the army museum called The Art of War. Her drawings are absolutely heartbreaking and moving. I went to her because this idea of commemoration has to carry through different generations, different conflicts, and also through peacetime.

Canada and the world lost a number of people last year with the tragic helicopter accident that was assigned to HMCS Fredericton. We had the Snowbird accident with Captain Jenn Casey. We do need to find ways to commemorate all of these men and women.

I want to now tie that need to a recurring theme that comes up in our committee, which is youth. How do we activate youth, get them involved? As Master Corporal Smith said, we don't just carry the memory in us, we instill it in our kids. We put it in our youth and they carry it, and then they pass it along.

We heard ideas about curriculum, about travel. The Vimy 100, maybe there's something that could continue to go on for schoolkids.

Maybe I'll start with you, Lieutenant-Colonel MacLellan. Have you had any thoughts about this idea of youth, of travel, of commemorating people who have lost their lives in modern times?

[Scot Davidson, Conservative, York—Simcoe, ON]

Sorry to interrupt. I said “Loo-ten-ant”. I meant to say “Lef-ten-ant”. I just wanted to apologize to you for that, Lieutenant MacLellan.

[Corinne MacLellan]

That's okay. My CO would have corrected you, for sure, but that's not my role.

Andy, thank you for recognizing Captain Casey. Jenn was a very close friend of mine. I feel her with me right now. One of the greatest honours of my life was to read the family's statement when she passed.

This would be so meaningful to her, that we're talking about educating youth. It was her daily job. She was a public affairs officer, but she also was very instrumental in the interactive programs on the ground for the Snowbirds in public education and media relations.

I'm trying to answer your question. It's hard for me to get it out because it's an emotional time. We're just one week away from the anniversary of her death, right now.

When she died she was doing Operation Inspiration and looking forward to the ways that we commemorate and at those unique things that we can do to engage youth. This is a legacy of hers.

What it inspired me to do was a program called Operation Bluenose. We asked everybody to light up blue the first weekend of the sailing of the Bluenose. It was to give everybody an opportunity just to shingle something for us all to hang on to. We had a rough go here in Nova Scotia in the last year. It was surprising to me, to see how many people.... Obviously we had the Cyclone thing. We engaged all of the families. We engaged communities. People were pulling out their blue Christmas lights and whatnot and putting them on their front deck in the middle of July.

I'm off topic a little bit. I know a lot of the witnesses here have mentioned ways to engage, whether that's through digital media or telling stories.

This will be my last comment. One thing we did during the Flanders work that I was doing was a poem exchange for In Flanders Fields between a school in Poperinge, which is very near where John McCrae's military hospital was, along with a school here in Halifax. Each class read a stanza and then they had a Q and A afterwards. Some of those kids are still in touch today.

That's a very long-winded answer to say I think there are so many ways that we can do this. But it is absolutely something that's not going to happen naturally. We have to put effort into it.

I'm so pleased to hear all of the people speaking here of the work that they're doing. I want to thank you all for your service.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Up next, we have MP Desilets, for two and a half minutes, please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Windsor, I would like to ask you a brief question.

Last week, during a committee meeting, the witnesses talked about something that united them, and that is the categorization of conflicts. As we know, a peacekeeping operation, for example, is not a counter-terrorism operation.

In your opinion, does this classification affect how we commemorate the service or sacrifices of our veterans?

[Dr. Lee Windsor]

Mr. Desilets, I apologize, but I know very little French.

I will proceed in English.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

One does not apologize for speaking French.

[Dr. Lee Windsor]

It's a complicated issue, to say the least. I think the differentiation between them might speak to what Lieutenant-Colonel MacLellan was just addressing about how to engage youth. In any given classroom, you have 30 kids with a variety of interests, some interested in humanitarian aid, when it comes to, say, a world issues class. Imagine a classroom could pick from a roster of missions and students pick the one that interests them the most. One is interested in peacekeeping and in the establishment of UN peacekeeping with UNEF I in Suez, one has a parent who was in Afghanistan and they want to learn about the Afghan mission and another is a second-generation immigrant from Central Africa and they want to know about the Congo mission.

So let the students make a decision about what they're going to study in the classroom, based on that personal connection, and let them talk to each other about what makes them similar and different. I think what's similar about them is that every soldier who's dispatched, every soldier, sailor or aircrew member, are all doing the same job. A veteran is a veteran whether you serve on active operations or not. But there is a difference in the way they serve, and I think it's time to be honest with Canadians about how complex and diverse that is. So let's embrace the diversity, but we're going to have to talk to people about it in a complex way, and not assume they're too ignorant to get it. I think Canadians are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. That is your time, sir.

Up next we have MP Blaney for two and a half minutes, please.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Today has been a very impactful day. I represent 19 Wing here in my riding. I remember going there to spend a day and talking to some of our serving members. They said they train until they do it automatically. There's no fear, there's no anything, there is absolute training and action. I carry that with me all the time when I think of our veterans and what they've given, and how finely trained they were to do the work they needed to do.

Dr. Windsor, Mr. Smith talked about how impactful it was to not feel needed, to have to almost hide his service, which was really impactful for me. You talked about young veterans needing to see themselves represented when we remember, when we have a commemoration.

I'm just wondering if you could talk about what that would look like, if you have examples. You talked about how they need it for their good health, you talked about the wounded part, but I want to talk about how remembering and commemorating is good for their health.

[Dr. Lee Windsor]

The problem is that every veteran defers to the generation. There are many issues to work through. Every veteran defers to the generation that served previous to them. Did you notice how Sean spent a lot more time talking about the First and Second World Wars than his own service? Veterans are modest. I missed Medak, but I wrote the report on Medak afterwards as an intelligence operator.

I'm not sure, Ms. Wagantall, but the paragraphs you just read, I think I might have written them; I'm not sure. I'll have to check the attribution on that. Veterans today won't ask. They quietly ask if I can mention their mission at the Remembrance Day service, but don't take the attention away from the First and Second World War because they had it rougher than we did. The Second World War veterans said the First World War guys had it rougher. The Korea vets said the Second World War guys had it rougher. This is a challenge for us in that Canadian soldiers, sailors and aircrew members are humble, and we in some respects need to pull it out of us, just like we needed to pull it out of Sean.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's almost exactly time, Ms. Blaney. Thank you.

Up next, for probably about a three-minute question, Mr. Brassard, please.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I want to thank everybody who has taken the time to be with us today. As I said earlier, this has been some very compelling testimony on not just the importance of commemoration, but the fact that we all need to work harder at doing it and much better at doing it as well. I do want to say thank you.

I want to say thank you to you, Mr. McMullin, for your family's service of 38 years, your own service in the military as well as that of all of those who served. It really is a generational thing. Many families have multiple members who serve in our armed forces, and it is incumbent upon us to remember that service.

My last question is to Mr. Borne.

You talked about the machinery and the artillery that you use for parades. You referenced the unofficial mobile museum, the artifacts, and the 30 military members who look after this. Oftentimes those open up conversations. I think in my case about the Central Ontario Peacekeepers and the investment that they've made in the LAV. They've had support from Veterans Affairs on that. How much more support would we need to give organizations like yours for these conversation starters, not just the people who are there, but the machinery and the mechanisms like the cannons that you spoke about, etc?

[LCol Jacques Borne]

We do not have any support from the government. We tried once, and we had no answer. But our equipment is worth about $200,000 now. We fund it ourselves. It's our own company; it's our own equipment. It does not belong to the army or to the government. We have the help of the honorary colonel.

Let's say for instance we go to the Ironman for the kickoff of the competition. They give us a grant or a certain amount of money. We don't need that much money, but what we would like to be is recognized as a museum in order to partake in the exchange of equipment with other museums. For instance, we wanted a 19 radio from the Second World War. There was advertising by all the museums asking if anybody would like to have one. We answered that, yes, we would need one. They said no problem, but a week after, they said we were not accredited so they were not allowed to give us one. We would have to be accredited as a museum. So the solution was they we bought our own 19 radio.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Borne.

I am sorry for not asking my question in French.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

That brings us to the end of the two hours today. It also brings us to the end of this study, and I want to just take a moment to thank all of the witnesses here and all of the witnesses over the last couple of meetings who have helped us with this study. I look forward to the report and to being able to present it to the House.

Thank you again to all of my colleagues and all the folks in Ottawa who allow us to be heard across the country.

I will just remind those on the committee that the next meeting is on May 12. It will be our first meeting on service dogs for veterans, with an appearance by departmental officials.

Thank you very much, everyone.

The meeting is adjourned.