Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I have Mr. Rogers, and then Monsieur Desilets.

I want to inform you, from the clerk, that we don't have any witnesses on our list. Whether the motion will pass or not, we have to think about that too.

Mr. Rogers, go ahead.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Mr. Chair, going back to Mr. Casey's point about our schedule that we previously arranged, I want to point out that we missed two meetings recently. They were cancelled for other reasons. We lost two full meetings.

We have a schedule that we want to have done, in terms of the study on marriage after 60 and then the one on employment. If we're going to start interjecting on a particular topic and add two meetings here or two meetings there, then we're not going to accomplish a whole lot as a committee.

I strongly support what Mr. Samson is saying about one meeting and one hour for each portion. I'd support that, but not two.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

Over to you, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am very mindful of the points Mr. Casey raised. Without going into detail, I will say that there were assurances on our end. I will also say that thousands of factors can cause the committee's meeting schedule to change throughout the year. We agreed on the timetable for this study. Two meetings have been cancelled since, and more could be cancelled with the sitting hours of the House being extended until midnight. I am still in favour of holding two more meetings.

I'm not comfortable ending the meeting like this. We are almost out of time and we aren't hearing from more witnesses. I'm uncomfortable concluding our discussions on this issue with so much still unclear. Let's put ourselves in the analyst's shoes. What is the poor analyst going to put in the report? This was a point of disagreement, that was a point of disagreement and so on? We need time, and we're going to have even less of it today.

I'm sticking to two meetings, but I would support revisiting the committee's schedule so we can keep our word.

Perhaps you have something to say about it, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Without revisiting the schedule, we could perhaps meet in camera.

I should also note that the motion for this study was adopted on October 3. Further to the motion, it was agreed that “no fewer than two meetings be devoted to this study”. I understand the reason for today's discussion.

Go ahead, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'll be speaking against the amendment.

There's been some concern raised about changing the agenda that was agreed on by the previous subcommittee. What's important to point out is that we've heard a lot of things in the last couple of meetings that cause great concern. As you've just said, Mr. Chair, it was stated that there would be at least two meetings. We've heard lots of testimony in the last couple of meetings that would indicate a need to continue with this study. That is, simply, what we're seeking to do here.

It still allows us to finish the report that we're working on, which we will hopefully finish next Monday. It still allows us to conclude the final meeting of our study on the MAID issue. What's left on the agenda is several meetings on a new study.

We might as well conclude what we're doing and be able to wrap up and provide reports on the things that we're working on, and then we can still begin a new study. I don't really think this impedes the business of the committee in any way. It actually improves it.

I would encourage everyone to oppose the amendment and support the main motion.

I hope that we can go to votes on both of those now, so that we can hear from the veteran who's waiting to hear from us. I hope that we won't have a filibuster from the government here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

I have to tell you that the clerk got in contact with the witness for the next panel, so he is waiting.

If there are no further comments, I'm going to call the vote on Mr. Samson's amendment.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Chair, could you please read the amendment so that everyone is on the same page?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Of course.

It is:

That the committee hold one more meeting on the impact of the new rehabilitation contract awarded by the Department of Veterans Affairs on the role of the case manager and quality of service delivery on or before December 5:

Half in which the committee calls potentially impacted service providers and veterans to appear before the committee for no less than one hour.

Half in which the committee calls the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Department of Veterans Affairs officials to appear before the committee for no less than one hour.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'd like to take a moment to explain my amendment.

The minister is going to be here on Thursday, so we can ask him questions about this issue as well. That would remove the need for a second meeting because everyone else could appear during the extra meeting I'm proposing through my amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Very well.

I'm going to let the clerk conduct the recorded division on Mr. Samson's amendment.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, can we call the question on the main motion, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Yes.

Go ahead, Mr. Casey.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

If this motion passes, I submit my resignation as a member of the subcommittee on procedure and planning. I can no longer participate in a committee in which agreements are not honoured.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

That is duly noted, Mr. Casey.

I will now call the vote on Mr. Richards' motion. Once again, we'll have a recorded division.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. Since the committee has adopted Mr. Richards' motion, please submit your witness lists as soon as possible. Your promptness in providing that information is greatly appreciated. Please have it in by noon on Friday, so that the clerk can make the necessary arrangements, as per the committee's wishes.

Go ahead, Mr. Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Mr. Chair, since no dates have been set for those meetings, I suggest scheduling them in February.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

All right. If necessary, the subcommittee will meet to figure out the scheduling.

Over to you, Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Sorry, I'm a bit confused about what I just heard.

What was the suggestion for February? What is it for?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

The motion had no date set forth. Therefore—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It did, actually. We voted for the meetings to occur before December 5.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Was that in the motion?

[An hon. member]

Yes. That's correct.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I, too, want to move things along, but first, I must thank the witnesses for being here today. Their input has been very valuable to the committee.

We are going to have to suspend now. On behalf of the committee members and myself, I would like to thank Angela Aultman, case manager and president of local union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees; Amanda Logan, case manager and president of local union 60006, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees; and Whitney McSheffery, case manager, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees. We appreciate your participation. Until next time.

Now we'll break for a few minutes, before we bring in the next witness.

Honourable members, the meeting is suspended.