Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 21st, 2022

[Whitney McSheffery]

We could likely get that.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I would appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Wagantall.

Now I'd like to invite MP Darrell Samson to speak.

You have six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for your presentation.

It's evident that it's a very difficult job. You're doing an excellent job of supporting our men and women who have served and who continue to serve. It's a crucial job; it's a frontline job, and it's a personal job.

Finding ways to support the job you do is also crucial for the department. Finding ways to relieve some pressure and maybe to deviate from some burdens you may have to allow you to have more face-to-face time with our veterans is crucial.

It's my understanding that the new company will support over 14,000 veterans with approximately 9,000 medical professionals right across the country from remote areas to urban areas.

Would you agree that it is the objective of Veterans Affairs and the company to deliver that service?

[Angela Aultman]

Certainly it's part of our role and mandate to connect veterans with the resources they require. I know that the department and the contractors certainly believe they can accomplish that. However, 9,000 providers across the country is actually not that big a number. We currently support the same number of veterans that it is estimated the contract is going to support.

My office, being on the west coast of Newfoundland, has a lot of rural needs. Many of the providers identified thus far by the contractor are still in city centres, and the rural folks are still going to be struggling; that is going to be ongoing.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Based on the information, being able to support over 9,000 veterans right across the country, rural and urban, is impressive in that sense.

Would you not agree that most of those services were already in place since 2006 with Veterans Affairs having contracted them out?

[Angela Aultman]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that in terms of their being contracted out. Yes, the services were being provided. They contracted out the piece that we've been working under, which is specifically in relation to the vocational piece, and specifically to employment. Veterans will still be able to keep their providers. We would be responsible for connecting with those providers. They also have providers going into the contracted vocational piece, which is aimed predominantly at employment and retraining.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

I'm trying to understand because I'm on the ground, as are all the members of Parliament, and I didn't hear any concerns from the union for the last year. It's only now, when the contract is actually coming into play. I didn't hear anything for a year on concerns about that.

Do you have any comments around that?

[Whitney McSheffery]

Last week you would have heard from our president that we have been trying to meet with the minister to discuss this, even prior to its implementation.

He refused to meet with us and put the contract in without consultation.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you for that answer, but it was a year. I know that the minister did meet with over 100 case workers not so long ago and announced $43 million in support for case workers, service agents and staff.

I want to zero in because I don't have a lot of time.

In your opinion, should the rehab psychologists, psychological services and vocational services be in-house? Do you think we should “in-house” all of this? Do you think we have the capacity? Would it not burden the case workers 10 times more?

[Angela Aultman]

If we did have the ability to do it in-house, I don't think it would be a greater burden on case managers.

I'm hesitant to answer this because I'm certainly not an expert.

Some of the issues, in terms of the administrative burden we have, include being part of provider relations, which is connecting with providers and demanding that the work—their reports and their information—meets the policy objectives. It would be easier if that was in-house.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

Has VAC ever provided these services in-house?

[Whitney McSheffery]

Do you mean in terms of psychological support?

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Yes, I mean the various supports.

[Whitney McSheffery]

No. We have a doctor in-house, but he only does reassessments for physical conditions.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

My fear is that without all these supports around the country, we're probably going to be causing enormous pressure for case workers delivering services to veterans and their families.

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 30 seconds.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's where I'm at. When I listened to what you shared with us and the emotion, it tears me because I know you're out there doing a lot of good work. Our job as parliamentarians—it doesn't matter what government—is to make sure we are there to help veterans and their families, and also the people who support them, like you. We are here to listen and to try to support.

This is one strategy. There are many strategies to follow, I'm sure, but this is one important strategy that Veterans Affairs and the government are trying to put in place. If we collaborate, I'm positive that we can find a way to help more veterans and help you to do your work as well.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Samson, thank you so much.

We will now go to the committee's second vice-chair, Luc Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You heard the discussion that took place at last week's committee meeting. My fellow member Mr. Richards asked Ms. Bennett, the director general and executive in charge, about employee training. She said she had 9,000 employees. As you know, that is 9,000 individuals who are available to work for Veterans Affairs Canada. She said they were either regulated health professionals or rehabilitation specialists.

What are your thoughts on that, Ms. McScheffery?

[Whitney McSheffery]

I believe it would be good to have social workers with the rehab service specialists. They certainly need that type of background. Many of them have been just rehab service specialists. That isn't necessarily someone who is privy to complex mental health issues or psychosocial issues.

That's the big difference between this rehab contract and how we were previously contracting it out. It was previously only vocation-specific, but now we're adding medical and psychosocial rehabilitation, which is a very different story.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We now know that the company will have 9,000 employees. You mentioned the insurance company Medavie Blue Cross and the fact that clients already have access to thousands of providers.

Are the company's providers the same as those currently providing service? Are they the same people?

[Whitney McSheffery]

No. A notice did go out to all of those providers to give them the heads-up that they could sign up to be a rehab provider for this specific contract. Many did not sign up. Nine thousand is not a lot of people in comparison to the larger pool of providers that we previously had access to.

Also, we have no idea whether our OSI clinics are participating or not. A lot of our OSI clinics, specifically in the Oromocto area, are pretty much non-functioning anyway, which is why I also have concerns about contracting. There's one that we have contracted out to the Province of New Brunswick, and it's not even staffed appropriately.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We know that there will be 9,000 providers, but how many are there now? More than that or less than that?

[Whitney McSheffery]

I can't give you a specific number right now—Cathay asked for specifics, so we'll get back to you on that—but it's much more.