Evidence of meeting #26 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
All right.
Do you think the employees working for this joint venture have the skills they need for this clientele? After all, you know the clientele quite well.
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
I am frankly unsure, because we have no idea who these employees are yet. The contract starts tomorrow, and we don't even know how to refer clients to this program.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
One of the reasons the department gave for implementing this new approach was to reduce the administrative burden on case managers.
Will that be achieved, Ms. Aultman? Yes or no?
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
I'm going to say no; this is not the way to achieve that decrease in administrative burden.
When we talked about administrative burden, we were referencing things like unnecessary documentation and duplication of documentation, which continues to be problematic. Those things are still going to remain the same.
This is not the way, and it's not going to achieve the parameters in terms of reduction of administrative burden that they're saying it's going to.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Would you go as far as to say that there will be more duplication?
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
Yes, I do think it will be a duplication of efforts. So far, all of these steps to decrease administrative burden have translated to an increase in administrative burden. It's a sort of not-funny joke that we have in our office.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Last week, Steven Harris told the committee that the average number of clients per case manager was 30, and he repeated it, in fact. Earlier, I thought I heard someone say it was between 45 and 62 cases. Ms. Aultman, you said that your caseload sat at 40.
Do those figures reflect the average number of cases annually? Were there spikes during the year?
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
I would say it averages pretty much where we're at, and I'll let my colleagues chime in as well. We've been closing files. I'd like you to keep in mind that the 40 that I'm sitting at are after extensive efforts to conclude files, which I have been directed to do, but I think New Brunswick is even higher than we are.
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 60006, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
I feel very strongly about this point.
Our numbers don't often go up and down; they stay very consistent. When you have a caseload of 40, for it to decrease significantly, there has to be a significant change, like a new person maybe coming onto the team and that type of thing.
As we know, rehabilitation and service-related injuries do not have a timeline. It makes sense that we case-manage for a notable amount of time. Because of that, our numbers go up, and they kind of stay up unless there is a big change like bringing on more resources, more people or more case managers.
11:45 a.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you very much for your comments and the work you're doing.
11:45 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg
Thank you, Mr. Desilets.
Now, I'd like to welcome our colleague Ms. Lindsay Mathyssen, who is subbing for Rachel Blaney.
You have six minutes. Please go ahead.
November 21st, 2022 / 11:45 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here today. It's so evident how much you care for the people you serve. Thank you so much.
Can you talk to me about how you've had to prepare your cases for moving over to this new system and this new contract? Were there additional forms to fill out? You talked a lot about that stress of administrative burden. How has that process been?
Go ahead, Ms. Aultman.
11:45 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
Certainly.
Yes, there was a lot of case prep ahead of time in terms of the transition over, but the main documentation was, as we call it, a 1700 form. It's six pages. The content of that, which they were requesting, was specifically things we have acquired throughout our rapport and relationship with veterans that will help the contractor to better connect and better engage with veterans.
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
I would argue no.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
In terms of this transition, you said that you don't feel prepared at all. You don't feel as though that connection will be existing now. It's supposed to happen tomorrow, but in terms of that transition to the new system, you also mentioned that you haven't been trained on the new computer system.
How many different computer systems do you have to deal with?
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
We have many computer systems. One came in that was meant to replace a previous one, and the previous one never went away. We have probably three or four now.
This will be a new system that will come in, and there's been no training on it whatsoever. The documentation they sent out in terms of their training plan indicated it would occur at the end of October. We are now one day before our go-live date, and we have not seen it.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Okay.
In terms of that transition, can you talk about the relationship with the new service provider? How's that happening? How's that going?
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
Yes. Case managers have started to get calls from the rehab service specialists who are representing the contract—they're employed by the contractor—to begin facilitating this transition process. It has, quite frankly, been more confusing.
I've had a number of case managers reach out to me a little bit more since we did a presentation about a month ago. People with concerns have been reaching out, and there have been a number of case managers who've been connected. The rehab service specialist has reached out, and they've actually advised that the contract go-live date is being pushed to the 29th. That's what they've been advised, but we haven't had official documentation or official clarification from our department about that.
Additionally, I know a number of case managers who attempted to prepare for the transition by having their veterans undergo assessment to save it having to be done under the new contractor, so that the case manager had more ability to support their veteran through the stress of that assessment. The rehab service specialist has indicated that it's insufficient, even though it's current, and that they will have to undergo a specialized assessment with the contractor. So now there's more burden.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
That's correct.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
You talked a lot about how much that stress of 40-plus cases puts on you. Certainly it's put on the veterans. You also mentioned that you've had to close files. Do you feel there's a lot of pressure for case managers to close those cases?
There are lots of nods.
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
Yes. I have been closing files left, right and centre.
It's a lot of work on the back end to close a file and conclude that relationship with someone who has shared so much with you. When we were able to do home visits, we knew their wife, their kids, and their dog. Do you know what I mean? It's very difficult to end that relationship. It's necessary. We do want them to be independent. That is the goal of the program. With that push, that pressure, some of them are not ready yet, and there is a pressure to close them prior to when they might need to.
11:50 a.m.
Case Manager and President, Local Union 90002, Union of Veterans' Affairs Employees, As an Individual
If I may add to that, it also took a lot of time. Essentially, how these files were flagged, a report was pulled from one of the two main computer systems that identified files over, say, four years. You had to take the time to meet with the manager. Yes, you reviewed this file. Yes, you closed them where appropriate, but there was a lot of advocating to keep files open, especially when a new condition had been added.
There was a lot of pressure to close the file, even though you would argue that really.... Yes, they had been on for four years, but they started with, say, a back condition and maybe two years ago they had a mental health condition, so really, technically, the time should start over, in my opinion, but that's not what was happening.
11:50 a.m.
NDP
Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Certainly, mental health doesn't abide by those timelines. I get that. It takes a lot of time, sometimes, within that trusting relationship, for things to come forward.
Have you had to close a case, probably prematurely, and seen that veteran have to come back to the system?