Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

If everybody can switch off their microphones in the room, I'll speak.

I just have one more question, Minister—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, the interpreters—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

No, it's not good for the translation. It's not working. I'm so sorry.

Who would like to take this last minute?

I will invite Mr. Dowdell to take one minute.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I've been on this committee for just a short period of time. Since I've been here, there have been three issues, and quite frankly all three have been a fail. We have MAID, we have the contract and now the backlog, which seems to be quite consistent.

I know that in most organizations.... I don't know if there have been performance reviews on how this department is run. I've been very disappointed with it, so I'm curious about that. In most organizations, even in an NHL hockey team, for instance, if they have this kind of treatment, usually the coach or general manager or somebody has to come forward and come clean. From what I've seen from this, I'm extremely disappointed.

Minister, you sat here and said basically that nothing seems to be your responsibility, whether it's the investigation.... I get that it's separate, but there has to be some onus on you for the disappointment that's going on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry, Mr. Dowdall.

You have 15 seconds, please, Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, I do have a responsibility: to make sure that we deliver to veterans in as timely a manner as possible the programs that we put in place.

The backlog is down from 22,000 to 8,400 or 8,500. We are working full time to make sure we address the backlog. We're working to make sure that veterans receive the compensation they truly deserve. We have done that, and we'll continue to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Dowdall.

Now I invite, for the last question on this panel, Mr. Churence Rogers, for five minutes or less.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you for being here again. You and your officials have been frequent visitors to this committee, and your contribution is appreciated in order to rectify some misconceptions or to provide some facts on the things that have been addressed with regard to the new rehab contract.

I know that I've been mystified by some of the responses we've gotten from some of our witnesses at some points in time, and I've sought clarification. I'm happy to hear that the deputy minister and you are rectifying some of these comments.

I realize that it is really challenging to move to a new system. Every time you move to a new system, of course, there are people who challenge what you do because they are so used to doing things in a certain way.

What I want to ask you is, what exactly will this contract do? You can repeat it for the record. Also, what is different from the two previous contracts that were in place? How many veterans will be supported by the services provided under this new contract?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The fact is that there will be over 14,000 veterans served with this contract. The contract will, at this time, have 9,000 experts in 600 locations across Canada. Both numbers will go up when need be to make sure we can serve veterans right across the country and make sure they receive what they should receive when they need to receive it. That's what we're trying to do.

As to the transition, it's fair to say it was quite seamless. The reason is that the department had sessions with employees before this transition came into play.

I'll let the deputy expand on that, but you're right.

[Paul Ledwell]

Previous to the unrolling of this contract, there were two contracts. One focused on medical and psychosocial, and one focused on vocational. This new contract is a single contract where all of these converge. What that does is allow a veteran to have one plan that addresses all of those areas. A plan will be developed with a case manager, and it will be supported by rehabilitation service experts. This list of experts is accessible to them right across the country.

We're beginning with those 9,000 experts on those points of service for those 14,000 veterans in 600 locations, as the minister indicated. We'll look to increase that to ensure that more service providers are there to support veterans in the communities, and with the needs they have in those communities.

This provides a one-stop shop for the veteran with their case manager. It provides case managers with access to people who will chase down all the information they need. It will help book appointments and ensure that the paperwork is in place, so there aren't any obstacles to getting those appointments and getting the follow-up appointments that are so necessary.

It's good for the veteran in terms of access and information, and it's good for the case manager in terms of allowing them more time with the veteran.

[Churence Rogers, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

I want to ask you this. Will there be any case manager job losses because of this new contract? Should rehab, psychosocial, and vocational services be provided in-house by Veterans Affairs? Has Veterans Affairs ever directly provided these services in-house?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

No, there will be no case managers losing their jobs.

Mr. Rogers, you and I talked about this in Newfoundland, about how far some people have to drive. What we did was combine the two contracts into one to make sure that the case manager just has to go to one contractor. As the deputy said, there are about 15-16 hours of work per month taken away from the case worker to make sure that the case worker can dedicate that time to the veteran.

As I indicated many times, what we are doing with this contract is providing the service we should be providing to veterans when they need it and where they need it. You and I discussed mileage, and what it could be, so it's pretty important for rural areas, smaller areas across the country, to have access to a contract like this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Rogers.

This concludes our discussion with the first panel of witnesses.

Witnesses, I invite you to stay.

We will suspend so the next panel can settle in and conduct the sound checks.

Also, we will make sure that everything is okay with our colleague, Fraser Tolmie.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We can now proceed to the second panel of this meeting.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), the committee is undertaking the study of supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23: votes 1b and 5b under the Department of Veterans Affairs, referred to the committee on Thursday, November 17, 2022.

We still have with us the Honourable Lawrence MacAulay, Minister of Veterans Affairs; Paul Ledwell, deputy minister; and Steven Harris, assistant deputy minister, service delivery branch.

Now we add to our witnesses Ms. Sara Lantz, acting assistant deputy minister, chief financial officer and corporate services branch; Ken MacKillop, associate deputy minister, by video conference; Amy Meunier, assistant deputy minister, commemoration and public affairs branch, by video conference; and Pierre Tessier, assistant deputy minister, strategic policy, planning and performance branch, by video conference.

The time is now 12:22 p.m. I will allow Minister MacAulay five minutes for his opening statement.

A reminder to the members that, if we want to table our report on supplementary estimates (B), 2022-23 in the House, we will have to reserve the last 10 minutes of the meeting to discuss it before voting.

I would like to invite the Honourable Lawrence MacAulay for five minutes, please.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members.

I will move on to supplementary estimates (B).

For a department like ours, where more than 90% of the budget represents payments to veterans, it's important that we conduct regular budgetary reviews to make sure that we're on track to meet the needs of our clients.

Our benefits are demand-driven, so no matter how many veterans come forward, when eligible, they will receive their benefits. They are based on estimates, and the process guarantees that whenever a veteran comes to our department this year, next year or beyond, the benefits will be available.

Over the past several years, significant investments by the government and numerous changes at Veterans Affairs have resulted in a noticeable improvement in service delivery. In fact, since 2016, we have invested well over $11 billion to ensure that veterans get services and benefits when they need them. This is $2 billion per year more in the pockets of veterans than the previous government.

Regarding the backlog for disability benefits, the government continues to make investments to bring it down. The $140 million we invested earlier this year is helping to continue to reduce the backlog and wait times for veterans. I am happy to report that in the past two years the number of applications over the service standard has been cut by more than half, from 23,000 in 2020 to 8,653 today. Average wait times for veterans have been reduced from 43 weeks to 25 weeks. This is a significant improvement in service from where these numbers used to be, but we all agree that there's more work to do. By next summer, we expect to have the backlog under control and meeting our service standard.

As you can see, Mr. Chair, these supplementary estimates add $78.8 million to our current year's budget, a 1.4% increase. This includes $52.9 million of the $140 million to extend disability adjudication resources. Through these estimates, the department will also receive $14 million of the $43 million announced last month to allow us to retain case managers and other frontline team members who serve veterans every day.

These investments in case managers allow the department to better support veterans with complex needs. Among those needs is mental health. Last April, we launched a new mental health benefit that allows for immediate coverage for treatment for anxiety, depression and trauma-related disorders. You will see that the estimates include access to $8.4 million to support development of the mental health benefits program. Since April, over 1,500 veterans have received support through this program, and many more will receive support in the coming weeks and months.

The department has also been proactive in reaching out to veterans who might be vulnerable. Throughout the pandemic, thousands have received phone calls and follow-ups from Veterans Affairs Canada staff checking in on their well-being. As always, we remain grateful to our many partners across the country who work with us to support veterans on the ground and make sure former members are able to lead healthy and productive lives.

Soldier On, for example, was part of bringing the Invictus Games to Vancouver-Whistler in 2025. For Canada, it will be a great honour to host ill and injured veterans and still serving members from 20 nations. Over the next three years, the government is contributing $15 million in funding to help organize and deliver the games. These estimates include $2.3 million for that investment to help support the effort.

I can ensure you, Mr. Chair and all members of the committee, that these supplementary estimates represent an important and necessary investment in the health and well-being of our veterans and their families.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Minister.

Now, I'd like to tell you that we're going to have only one round of questions, of six minutes each, but members can split their time with a colleague.

For the first question, I'd like to invite Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for six minutes or less.

Please go ahead, Mrs. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today. I appreciate it.

You mentioned the billions of dollars available for veterans. However, we have had a serious issue with not being able to supply those dollars because of the backlogs. I understand that they're becoming more reasonable over time, but I have to ask why it seems that it's taking so long for VAC to understand what the.... I hear case managers saying that they're overloaded and they need more, with a long-term vision for serving our veterans. This has been a huge issue.

Is there a plan to actually make sure those dollars get out the door and those programs get out the door the way they need to, with the use of our case managers in numbers that will actually provide for the needs of our veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much. It's a good question.

In fact, it's true that the backlog was large, but as I indicated, it's down to well under 8,000. We have to bring that to the national standard, and we will.

On case managers, we have had a major investment in case managers and hired quite a number, to make sure they remain in place for another three-year period in order to make sure that we address the backlog and that veterans receive the funding they should receive.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

So my understanding—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

But as I indicated quite clearly—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes. I understand what you're saying, Minister—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—we do put $2 billion extra—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Chair...?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—into veterans' pockets than the previous government did. So we are getting some money out.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Minister.