Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you for that, Chair. I certainly agree.

There are a number of veterans in the room today and we thank them for their service. I know they're here to hear some of the answers, and I'm sure there are many others watching elsewhere. Let's try to reset and start again.

Minister, can I ask how you would say the transition has gone? What would you have done differently if you could go back in time, if anything?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'd like to answer the first part of the statement. However, I will tell you that the transition has just started, and my understanding is that it's going very well. We've had a number of information sessions leading up to this to make sure that the transition went well. In September 2021, we had a session. In December 2021, we had a session. We will have another session next March.

We're working to make sure that this contract works better for veterans. We have more access to more experts in more areas across the country, in more locations. That's what veterans wanted, and that's what we're providing.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Well, Minister, we've heard something different from every other person we've heard before this committee, whether they be veterans, service providers or VAC employees themselves. They have no idea what's going on and they think there was a real lack of consultation and information. When you say it's gone very well, I think you might want to re-examine that.

Can you tell me, were you aware that during the period of time of the transition—so the period of time from October 25 to November 29, when this took effect—no new mental health services were being provided to clients? Were you aware of that, Minister, and what do you have to say about that?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, I want to assure you that people were invited to those sessions to make sure that the transition went well, and there has been no gap in services between the old contract and the new contract. The deputy who's in charge of it can expand on that, if you wish, but that's exactly the answer—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Minister, let me interrupt. You're saying that, but the documentation provided by your department said something different. It says that case managers are requested to not create any new medical or psychosocial services for any new participants during the period of October 25 to November 22, which ended up being November 29.

Minister, again, this is a situation where the lives of veterans may have been put at risk because they were not being provided with the services they needed. That's because of the decision by your department. You seem to be unaware of it.

Please tell us what are you going to do to ensure you're not going to allow decisions like this to be made that put veterans' lives at risk.

We've seen it with medical assistance in dying, where you ignored something you heard from a veteran. We're seeing it now, where you seem to be unaware of the communication from your own department.

Please, Minister, we have to take this far more seriously.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Minister, you have 30 seconds to respond.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I can assure you that all the services were available through Veterans Affairs Canada, but I'll let my deputy comment.

[Paul Ledwell]

Mr. Chair, I can say that no veteran was denied service during that period of time. Any veteran who came forward with a need for service—mental health, psychosocial supports—was provided with those services.

That communication was about the transfer of files.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Ledwell.

Now I'd like to invite, via the screen, Mrs. Rechie Valdez, for five minutes or less, please.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Minister MacAulay and the department, for joining.

Minister, do you have any further answers to the questions that were asked, or were you able to finish your train of thought? I just want to confirm.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'd like to indicate, before we get to the end of it, what improvements are incorporated in this new contract.

Services are customized to each veteran's and family members' unique background and needs, and we strive to have an approach and methods that are indigenous-sensitive and culturally sensitive, continued access to rehabilitation services in the language of your choice and 24-7 access to an online portal through which veterans and family members can submit claims, manage appointments and access resources. Veterans and family members will have a chance to share their experience and satisfaction about the program, input that will help us make sure that the rehabilitation and vocational assistance programs are the best they can be.

That's it, essentially. There are quite a number of other things, but I appreciate the time to be able to say that we're providing more service, with more people, in more areas. I'll let the assistant deputy expand on it, but that's what we're doing.

[Steven Harris]

I think it's fair to say, as the minister has indicated, that the key interest here is in making sure that veterans have access to expert supports no matter where they live across the country—whether in urban settings or in rural settings.

It's about making sure not only that the rehabilitation specialists are there but also that the specialists are there to support them from a medical and psychosocial point of view, so if you need access to physiotherapy, psychology, occupational therapists or others, those services are provided, whether at an in-person site or remotely. We've seen many of our providers adapt over the course of the COVID period to reach people from a distance, which is a really significant benefit for our veterans. No matter where they live, they can reach experts who can help in their rehabilitation needs.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

I just want to mention this. In this committee, we've heard from several case managers from VAC who have testified about how much they care for veterans and how hard they work every day to ensure that each veteran's needs are taken care of. They have shared their passion and their concern for veterans.

I just want to encourage veterans who continue to listen to this committee to continue to seek help from VAC because there are case managers who care and who are waiting to hear from them while this investigation continues. I just wanted to share that.

I will move to my questions.

With the new contract, Minister, and to the department, can you clarify what the average ratio of case manager to veteran would be to continue to provide that strong level of service to them?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

I can tell you it's 30:1 at the moment, but if you would like, the deputy could expand further on the program itself and how it works.

[Paul Ledwell]

The minister is correct. The current ratio is 30:1, Mr. Chair.

That is an improvement. We've been seeking to improve the ratio. We know that our target is 25:1, so we are not at the target, but we are getting closer to that.

It's really important, as has been underlined by the minister in testimony, that we allow case managers to spend more time with their veterans. The case manager is the main point of contact, is the direct link between the veteran and their needs, and is there to ensure that the veteran has what they need and that their family has what it needs.

Having more time to spend with that veteran, having more time to plan out, is really critical. It's not just about the quantity, in terms of the ratio; it's also about the quality. That's really critical.

We have 482 case managers at Veterans Affairs Canada, supporting more than 14,000 veterans with complex and significant needs. They do this work very passionately.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I would definitely agree with you there.

In this committee, concerns have been expressed in the past about having more long-term case managers and front staff versus short-term staff. Can you comment on whether this contract can assist with having more long-term staff?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Of course, we make sure that we have enough staff in place. As you know, the ratio with case managers is 30:1, but the backlog is a problem. We have invested in both areas, and both areas are going in the right direction. We're not there yet, but it's coming to where it should be.

What we have to do is make sure we have the appropriate staff and programs in place to help veterans live the best life they possibly can. That's what we're committed to doing, and that's what we will do.

Thank you.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

To the veterans in the room, thank you for your service.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mrs. Valdez.

Two short interventions of two and a half minutes each will follow.

I would first like to invite Luc Desilets to take the floor.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Harris, my question will be short. I'd like to know why the contract's start date was pushed back. If I'm not mistaken, it was changed from November 22 to November 29.

[Steven Harris]

It wasn't the start date of the contract that was pushed back, but rather that of part of a system that supports both veterans and Veterans Affairs Canada employees. It's a new system module that they're already using.

We wanted to be sure of the quality of the module and to ensure that everything would work right from the start. So we delayed the rollout of that module by seven days.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Should we therefore conclude that the consortium's officials weren't ready?

[Steven Harris]

The idea was really to ensure that everything would go well, that there would be no issues with the system and that everyone would be able to use it. The delay didn't affect the services provided to veterans.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Many questions have been asked at the committee's recent meetings about the transparency of the consultation conducted on these issues. You've repeatedly told us that you asked some 100 persons for their opinion. However, some witnesses who were senior union officials gave us a completely different version of the situation, telling us that they hadn't been consulted.

Are you still saying that 100 persons were consulted?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, Luc. I can assure you that the union, the case managers, IT and a number of different groups connected with Veterans Affairs Canada—I had a list—were involved all the way.

As you realize, this contract was signed a year and a half ago, but we want to make sure that people understand this is not a new idea. This is an improved idea to make it better for veterans. That's what we are doing.