Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Here's the thing, though, Minister. Those case managers who were brought on were brought on temporarily, because the idea is that we just need to deal with this problem and then it will disappear and go away. But clearly, our case managers are managing far more than 25 files each. That potential will remain there. We have veterans who, rather than getting the best service possible, have been surviving through a lot of sanctuary trauma.

I want to bring to your attention, too, with regard to the mental health funding you mentioned, that right now, as you know, we're dealing with a horrific crisis in regard to MAID and what has been happening within VAC. We're dealing with its impact not just on actual individuals coming forward who have been impacted directly. There is now, indirectly, a sense of frustration and horror about those circumstances. Yet we're saying, on the one hand, that their mental health is so important to us.

Can you tell me what is going to be done to make it very clear that MAID will no longer be considered within Veterans Affairs Canada so that the mental health service can actually now basically begin to deal with an issue that has grown exponentially because of the circumstances around veterans being directly offered MAID as a means of dealing with their mental health issues?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

As you're aware, MAID never was, and will not be, anything that should be offered by Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It should not be offered.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It should not be offered. MAID is dealt with between the doctor and the patient only. Veterans Affairs never did offer, and will not be offering, MAID consultations. That will not take place.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

But sir, they are; Veterans Affairs is.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Yes, you're right; a problem arose, and that's why I asked my deputy to conduct an investigation, to take every means possible to make sure that this does not happen again. That's exactly what he did.

I just want to say that if you have any information that would help us to clean this up and make sure that it doesn't happen again, we want it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. I would be pleased to contribute to that.

Have you asked all veterans to indicate to you directly whether or not they have been approached to consider MAID as an option for the treatment of their issues? Have you asked that question of the veterans community, to please come forward if that has been the case?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

As I've said many, many times—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes or no?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—we want to make sure that any veteran who has had anything like this happen, or has been offered MAID, comes forward and brings the information forward—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

What is the vehicle, sir, for them to bring it forward?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—so that we can deal with it—even the RCMP was involved in this investigation—and bring it to a complete conclusion—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Excuse me, Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—to make sure that veterans feel safe to come to Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

You are the minister. Can you tell me exactly what vehicle is available to them? How have you been communicating that to them? What avenue do they have specifically to bring forward their concerns in regard to MAID being offered to them personally?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

If they wish, they can contact Veterans Affairs Canada, or they can contact the ombudsperson.

I would let the deputy expand on that.

We want to make sure that anybody who has any problem...please, bring it forward. We need the information.

[Paul Ledwell]

If I could, Mr. Chair, to the member's question, we have not sent out a specific request to every veteran in the country asking them to come forward as a result of this. However, given the attention of this at committee and given the attention through the media—quite rightly, given the significance of this—I think it's been very clear that if anyone has had this experience, we've asked them to come forward.

As the minister indicated two weeks ago at committee, if a veteran is not comfortable coming forward to the department, either through the minister or through me as the deputy, we've invited them to come to the ombudsman, which is an independent office and a safe place to raise this issue—

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Ledwell, I'm so sorry.

Mrs. Wagantall, it's over.

Now let's go to MP Darrell Samson for six minutes or less.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all for being here today. It's extremely important, and we appreciate the information that you're providing us on the various topics. That would be the rehab—you were able to clarify some very important facts—and now on the supplementary estimates.

The word that I want to touch on is “facts”. I think the facts are the key here. When I became MP in 2015, I was very disappointed, to be very honest, that our numbers in the backlog were so high. We invested $11 million and what we were doing was adding new programs to support veterans, like the income replacement, the pension for life options, the well-being fund and the emergency fund. Those were key elements, but the numbers weren't going down, and I was asking what was happening and what was causing this.

I think I got the answer. The answer is, one, that the new benefits added more applicants. We've seen that. The facts show that there are a lot more applicants.

The other factor—let's not hide from that—is that the former government in 2013-14, before the election, cut the budgets on the back of our men and women who served. We saw cuts in two major areas. There were nine offices right across the country.... I know. I'm from Nova Scotia, and we have a large population. We were very upset, because we lost that office in Sydney. We then saw over 1,000 frontline employees fired.

By rehiring all of those people and reopening all of those offices.... It takes a long time to find the personnel and do the training.

Those two factors are why, in my understanding today, the backlog was so big. Maybe you can talk about that.

There's also the fact that we're seeing the backlog.... It's not enough. We need to be at zero. Get me straight clear. We need to be at zero, but I'm so happy that we went from 22,000 to 8,500. Tell us a bit about how things are improving in that way, because we have to get to zero. It's crucial.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

Yes, without question, when we formed government, we had to hire a lot of people and we had to train a lot of people. When I became minister, I indicated that my number one, main priority was to address the backlog, and we have done that to an extent. It's not good enough, but we have invested millions of dollars in making sure that we brought it down. As you know, it was at 23,000 and it's now at around 8,500. We hope to bring it to the national standard. It won't be zero, because there are a lot of complicated cases that take time, and everybody understands that, but we must make sure that we continue on the path we're on.

Yes, there were a lot of reasons for people to apply, and new applications have increased by 50% now. Sometimes it's higher, but now it's about 50%. People feel very comfortable coming to Veterans Affairs Canada, and we want to make sure that they continue to feel comfortable coming to Veterans Affairs Canada, because they deserve to receive the programs that we've put in place in order to make sure they have as good a life as they can, because they stood up for us when we needed them.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Minister, for that answer.

The second thing I heard a lot about during the 2012-15 period was the loss of the pension for life option. They were getting a lump sum. It was good for some and not so good for others, from what I understand. We brought in the pension for life option. Can you tell me how many people, since we brought it back in, have taken advantage of that very important pension for life?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

A pension for life, of course, is something I would support strongly. There are two options. Of course, it's up to the veteran to decide which option they want to take.

I'm sure the deputy or some of my officials would have figures on that.

[Paul Ledwell]

We'll ask Steven to do that.

[Steven Harris]

I'll have to come back to you on the exact figures of who has taken pension for life. It's a suite of three programs. It's pain and suffering compensation, additional pain and suffering compensation, and an income replacement benefit.

The number of people who have taken a lump sum versus a long-term monthly payment varies and has varied since it came into effect in 2019. We'd be happy to provide that number right back to you and to the committee.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Could you provide that to the chair, please? I'd appreciate it if you could provide that information to the chair, which would be very important.

The other change that took place about six months ago, which we announced, is crucial. Mental health is so important for all Canadians. It's very important for our veterans as well, but we just can't have veterans with mental health challenges wait for services. They have to get the services immediately.

What have we done to support our veterans in mental health?