Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to get back to the fact that the AG did a report in May 2022 that was quite concerning to me. She expressed, very clearly, that the service standard had not been met in seven years, and that 80% of veterans applying for disability benefits for the first time were waiting about 39 weeks—which, of course, is a lot longer than the service standard of 16 weeks.

What I found most compelling and fascinating about the report was the fact that the Auditor General said, repeatedly, that the data collection in VAC is so poor that it's impossible to identify where the bottlenecks are, or whether the solutions proposed or resources put into the system are actually working in a meaningful way. That concerns me a lot. This is the very core of accountability: having a data system that is clear enough to know that, if an improvement is offered or an announcement is made, it's actually going to mean something substantive for veterans.

I'm wondering whether there are any discussions happening at the department around cleaning up this data collection system, so that bottlenecks can be identified and, when an actual solution is proposed, there's a way to measure whether it's fixing the problem that the announcement around dollars said it would.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Rachel.

We're always working to improve our systems, no matter what. We will continue to do that.

There's no question that we have made major investments in the backlog. We haven't gotten to where we should and will be. We will be there by next summer. That's a commitment we made and will meet. We want to make sure veterans receive it in a timely manner. Now—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Sir, I don't want to interrupt, and I definitely don't want to hurt the interpreters by arguing over one another, but I really just want to know clearly, are there any discussions about addressing the issue of data, which is such a major problem?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'll let the deputy respond to that but, as I said, we're working continually to make sure we have the proper systems in place.

Thank you.

[Paul Ledwell]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

The short answer is, yes, there are extensive discussions going on, both within the department and with other parts of government that are equally challenged with reporting on and tracking data.

In addition to the investment around personnel, the department is making significant investment around automation and digitization, as well as process improvements. One of the great benefits we have now that is increasing in its use is the number of veterans who come forward through a My VAC account. It allows for the assurance that the applications are complete and that the information is connected and it's more easily tracked. That, frankly, builds up our ability to track each of those applications as they go through the system to understand where the perennial organizational challenges may be and how we can invest and correct those challenges.

That's a very active undertaking to make the process more seamless for the veteran and to make the process more smooth in the department.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you. I will assume, then, that the next time we see an Auditor General's report there will be a substantive change. I will wait for that.

I just want to come back to this one part, though, which is the fact that from 2019 to 2020 there was 8% lapsed, almost 9% lapsed, spending for Veterans Affairs, and between 2020 and 2021 it was 11.6%. Just to give people a sense of that, it's over $630 million that was there in the department and not spent. There obviously seem to be resources there. I'm just wondering why these resources were not used to address the data concern. I figure you'd probably be able to get a pretty good system with that kind of money.

I also want to recognize, and I'm going to give you a very short time to answer this, that still with the marriage after 60, which you all know I'm going to continue to fight forever because I think it is absolutely wrong that a veteran who finds someone who loves them and will care for them in their aging years has nothing to leave for their survivor.... We know that in terms of the funds for this veterans survivor fund, there's still nothing going to survivors.

When there are those kinds of resources, why aren't we seeing them, one, invested in data so those systems are fixed so the veterans have transparency and we know where the problem is, and two, invested so that people, survivors of veterans, who have cared for and loved veterans, for very many years in some cases, actually get a little bit of support instead of living in destitute poverty?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Ms. Blaney, I think on the first issue you know very well what the answer is. Of course, there has to always be enough funding there to make sure that we provide the funding for the veteran when the veteran applies. The problem is that it's a lot of money and a lot of money returned, but we have to always be sure that the money is there. That money is not lost. That money is there for the next year and the next year, to make sure that the veterans receive the benefits they should receive.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay, thank you for that. I hear the answer to that question.

My last question is this. I would like to have an explanation about why VAC is the only federal department whose main office is not in Ottawa. Why is that the case? What is the impact of that?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

It works very well in Charlottetown. I think Veterans Affairs Canada works with thousands of staff, and they do an awful lot to make sure they improve the lives of veterans. They have done that and will continue to do that.

Thank you so much.

If I am leaving, I just want to thank you, Mr. Chair, for the time and for giving me the opportunity to do both because I have an appointment on Thursday that I cannot miss, but I also want to thank everybody on the committee and the veterans who are here for coming here because it's so important.

We're all working together to make it better. Thanks to everybody.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much, Minister, but please stay for a few minutes, because we have to vote on the supplementary estimates.

VETERANS AFFAIRS Vote 1b—Operating expenditures..........$62,894,446 Vote 5b—Grants and contributions.......... $2,000,000

(Votes 1b and 5b agreed to on division)

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Shall I report the votes to the House this afternoon?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you. That's what we'll do.

With that, I want to thank all the witnesses who have appeared before our committee today.

For this second part, concerning supplementary estimates (B) 2022-23, I want to thank the Hon. Lawrence MacAulay, MP and Minister of Veterans Affairs, and the departmental witnesses: Paul Ledwell, Deputy Minister; Steven Harris, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery Branch; Sara Lantz, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer and Corporate Services Branch; Ken MacKillop, Associate Deputy Minister; Amy Meunier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Commemoration and Public Affairs Branch; and, lastly, Pierre Tessier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Planning and Performance Branch.

I also take this opportunity to thank our entire support team: the interpreters, the technical team and the clerks.

The meeting is adjourned.