Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 5th, 2022

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

—because Immigration does record those conversations, but that's fine.

I just wanted to go back to the fact that we did have a service provider testify last week on her over 20 years of providing direct services. She did all the forms she was supposed to at the beginning, and then she received the form to fill out, and she did not have any of the services that she provided on the form. She requested from VAC information so that she could fill out that form properly. She has still not heard anything back.

I'm just wondering. When you have a service provider who has worked with veterans for over 20 years, I would assume we don't want to lose that kind of experience. What is happening and what systems are in place to make sure that when they ask for information, they get it so that they're not just off the list and their experience gone?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I can assure you, we don't want to lose any experts in Veterans Affairs Canada. Caseworkers definitely play a major role in this issue.

On a case-by-case.... I have to be careful what I say about cases, but I would turn it over to my deputy on this specific case.

[Paul Ledwell]

Thanks.

Mr. Chair, on these kinds of issues, we absolutely don't want to lose service providers. We are reliant on those service providers to meet the needs of veterans at every level and through every advantage that we have in terms of supports for veterans.

In some cases, where information is being sought, we do have to do a review on the privacy element of this. If this is information that is being shared externally—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Just so you know, this isn't about services. This is about.... She provides, for example, occupational therapy. When she got the form about what services she could provide, that wasn't an option for her. She wondered which part of the form she should click.

This is the problem. Also, it took a very long time. She still hasn't heard back. It's been a couple of months.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Give a quick answer, please, in 10 seconds.

[Paul Ledwell]

We will correct those forms. The whole idea is to increase the number of service providers, especially geographically and on that expertise level.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Blaney.

Now, let's go to the second round.

I invite our first vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Blake Richards, for five minutes or less, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I want to wrap up our previous discussion.

I think it's fairly clear to see why veterans fail to have trust and confidence in you and your department.

You heard the case of the veteran known as Bruce, who came forward and indicated that he was offered medical assistance in dying. You heard Christine Gauthier, who came to this committee and indicated that two separate agents offered her medical assistance in dying when she was seeking help in getting a lift put into her house. Then you wonder why veterans don't feel comfortable coming forward.

You sit here and tell us that you still think there are only four cases, despite the fact that you have veterans who have come forward. In one case, they came to you as early as 2021, well before this ever made the media. You sit here and continue to tell us that there are only four and there's only one agent, when veterans have clearly indicated that's not, in fact, accurate.

I really hope, Minister, that you're going to go away from this meeting and think really long and hard about how you've failed our veterans in this regard and how you're going to have to do better. You've potentially put veterans' lives at risk.

I want to move specifically to the contract. I want to ask you about the contract.

How would you say the transition period has gone, Minister? Is there anything that you would have done differently if you could go back in time?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Richards.

Nobody wants to indicate that it's not safe or good for veterans to go to Veterans Affairs Canada. I would expect that nobody at this committee would ever want to portray that to the public. We have thousands of staff who are fully dedicated to the veterans.

As for the names you mentioned, I do not deal with specific cases. I have never met Mr. Bruce.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Minister, the question I asked—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You asked me a question and I would like to have the courtesy to be able to answer it.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I asked you a question about the contract and the transition.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You said a number of things.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Sure, I made some comments, but I've asked you—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'm making comments, too, and I have the right to do it.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It's my time. I'm asking you a question and I'd like an answer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Excuse me.

Mr. Richards, I've stopped your time, your five minutes.

For the translation, please.... If you ask a question of one minute, then it should be an answer of about one minute, too.

Please, go ahead.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, when I ask the minister a question.... If you're asking us not to cause an issue for translation, then can I ask you, as chair, to try to hold the minister to be relevant to the question that I've asked?

In this case, it was about the transition of the contract, how he felt it has gone and what he would have done differently. I didn't hear anything that was addressing the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I understand that, but it was at the beginning of his answer.

Please, let him go on and we'll see if it's relevant or not.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'll just point out that it seems as if the minister is trying to kill time so that we can't actually get to the heart of the questions we're trying to ask.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The time is stopped.

We have Mr. Casey on a point of order.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Mr. Chair, it's my understanding that the witness is allowed to have as much time to answer the question as the member has in posing it. This member repeatedly poses long-winded questions and then interrupts the minister over and over again when he tries to answer them.

I think if there's an opportunity for the chair to intervene to maintain a fair exchange, it would be to put a halt on the interruptions until the minister has been allotted the same amount of time as the person posing the question.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Casey.

Mr. Richards, go ahead.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

On that point, certainly I think we all appreciate that when someone is asked a question, they should be given some time to answer it. The problem we have here, in many cases, is that when you ask a question, the question is not being answered and other things are being brought up.

I would ask you, as chair, to please try to hold the minister to some semblance of trying to respond to the question rather than filling time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'd like to tell everyone in the committee, and even the witnesses, that the meetings we have are important for us and also important for the veterans who are watching us. So please, let's act accordingly.

Go ahead.