Veterans Affairs Committee on April 17th, 2023

[Donna Riguidel]

I know that we can say, looking at what happened to General Fortin, that they definitely pull them back out of places, but then, of course, the end result is that now they're being sued for doing that.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

There are just so many things that we have to unpackage here, aren't there? From the time that you're in the Canadian Armed Forces, where you're treated maybe like a human sometimes, we know that you're told what to do all the time. Then, if we do not divide it between male versus female, if you're not having the proper care, if you're not having all of those things, no one's there to have your back, so when you are....

I'm sorry. I'm sitting here flabbergasted, because when I look at you, Christine, I'm so sorry that you've been treated this way. It's even difficult for me to ask questions.

How did we go wrong here? How did we allow you to end up where you are? You're only a few years younger than me. How did this happen? Really, I don't have a question. I have more of a comment.

We can do better. I think the recommendations you're bringing forward are very, very important. For anything to do with sexual assault, we know the trauma. We know that it's decades. If we do not deal with it immediately, we're going to have just what you're defining today.

I thank you very, very much.

I will cede my time. Thank you.

[Donna Riguidel]

Can I touch on one small thing? I can tell you, as I said earlier, that the first response and support at disclosure is so important. My chain of command, as a result of one of my sexual assaults, sent my chaplain over to talk to me. They are considered service providers and able to provide counselling.

In terms of his response to me when I told him, he asked me how things were going. I was on exercise when it happened, and I was still on exercise then. I said I was having really bad dreams. He asked me if I was sure if on some level I wasn't sexually aroused by the whole experience.

That was the expert.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Did you want to add something, Ms. Park? If you'd like to, you can do so briefly, please.

[Rosemary Park]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With these examples that we're sharing, I know there are two features. One is that, as veterans, we don't know what is happening. When it comes to the sharing of information, there is a great deal of work being done, but we aren't being informed about changes that are being tried.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you for that. We'll now move to our next round.

Ms. Rechie Valdez, you have six minutes.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

To the witnesses, thank you for your bravery and your honesty. Ultimately, your testimony will, I believe, make a difference in this important study. I'm truly thankful and grateful for your service.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I'll direct my questions to Christine Wood.

Karen, I'm going to try to unpack. Here we go.

Ms. Wood, in your testimony you discussed several examples of where your physical health was negatively impacted. When you were seeking medical assistance, could you walk us through what that experience was like when you were seeking it from VAC?

[Christine Wood]

Do you mean the assistance I received from VAC?

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Yes.

[Christine Wood]

It's a fight, a battle, to get anything approved. My primary condition that VAC recognizes is post-traumatic stress disorder, and because they don't recognize the physical illnesses that are consequential to PTSD, especially in women, I've been denied physiotherapy or a chiropractor or.... Like, they're allowed to work on my feet, but they're not allowed to touch any other part of my body. I have a claim that's been accepted for my feet.

I've gone months without hearing from my case manager when they say they'll get back to me. I haven't received a lot of help. I would say that most of my resources came with the assistance of either my family doctor or friends who were able to help recommend places. If you look at my VAC file online, it's denied, denied, denied, denied and denied for vocational rehab assistance for musculoskeletal injuries or pain or whatever. It's just denied.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'm not sure what the portal looks like, but when you submit the claim and a request, I'm sure you're attaching evidence of X-rays or whatnot, and even after that you will get denied. I just want to confirm that.

[Christine Wood]

Yes. That's 100% true.

Take my migraine application, for example. One migraine resulted in a small blind spot in my left eye. I have the paperwork from the eye specialists I had to see afterwards to make sure it wasn't growing or hadn't gone away. It's still there. It's permanent. They would even deny it with that information and records of hospital visits to get ER treatment for a migraine that was three days long.

I almost think it's a matter of practice. I don't want to be too skeptical, but at this point, after so many years, I can't help it. Do they just deny most claims outright and hope you will not appeal? Most women veterans and most veterans I know view VAC as Canada's meanest insurance company.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

You mention external advisory committees as one of your recommendations. I was hoping you could elaborate on that idea and how that would help.

[Christine Wood]

I'm happy to, because I sit on the external advisory council of the sexual misconduct support and resource centre with subject matter experts like judges and professors. They're experts in the field of sexual trauma. I've seen first-hand the benefit of that kind of an advisory council and the advice it can provide to an organization. I would like to see an external advisory council, much like the SMSRCs, developed for VAC, so that we can bring in external subject matter experts and some people with lived experience to help guide VAC on its policy.

I would like to see the creation of a women's veterans external advisory council that is mostly composed of women veterans and has the opportunity to engage with VAC at that level to provide feedback and to make sure the programs, the resources and the things they are designing are actually going to meet our needs. When programs and such are designed without that, then it's a waste of money, and it's just a band-aid solution.

Bringing in that external participation works. I've seen it work.

VAC is very insular. It doesn't really talk with the CAF. That's another group. I'd like to see servicewomen and women veterans together, and then some people from both sides being brought in. We're acting like CAF and VAC are two separate things, but they're not. It's one system, flowing back and forth.

Yes, that external advice is invaluable. There are really smart people out there. They have a lot to contribute, and they want to, because they care.

[Rechie Valdez, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ladies, your testimony is very moving and you show extraordinary courage. I did not expect that today. I am one of the two people who suggested this as a topic for study, but I did not expect it to be so moving. Listening to you earlier, I had a sense of shame, as a man. It's silly, isn't it? It will surely pass, but that's the feeling I have.

Some of you are familiar with the workings of such a committee, but you have great power, which lies mostly in the recommendations that will be made. I will soon ask you to take turns telling us what two recommendations you would want to include in our report, if you were in our shoes. The four of you are agents of change, so to speak, while we are just poor members of this committee. We come here with great joy and hope to make a difference, regardless of our political allegiance.

Ms. Park, you have written many articles and your resume...

[Rosemary Park]

Excuse me.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Can you hear the interpretation?

[Rosemary Park]

I'm hearing only the English.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

There. You found the right button.

[Rosemary Park]

I took a crash course, but that was 36 years ago.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We have the interpretation now. We are in a supposedly bilingual country.

Ms. Park, you've written a lot of articles and your resume is really impressive. Based on the studies and reading you've done, are there any exemplary countries that have practices that we could learn from when it comes to sexual misconduct?

Without minimizing it, far from it, I imagine that the problem exists in the militaries of all countries. There is machismo in these types of organizations. Are there any countries that have looked at this problem and thought that sexual misconduct is unacceptable?

In the last year or two, it seems like there's been some movement here in Canada since the new minister came in. She would like to take a little more space.

Where in the world do you think anything smart is being done?

[Rosemary Park]

That is a good question.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You may respond in English, if that is your language, Ms. Park.