Veterans Affairs Committee on May 4th, 2023

[Dr. Sara Rodrigues]

I'm sorry. I didn't have the interpretation.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I think the interpretation is working. I don't seem to be having any issues with the sound. I'll ask the clerk to check the equipment.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

It seems that, over there, they don't know what's wrong.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Maybe what you could do is try...see if you can take the earpiece from the next microphone over and try it. Make sure you're on channel 1. It says “01 English”.

[Dr. Sara Rodrigues]

It seems to be cutting in and out, but MaryAnn was able to summarize the question for me. I apologize for the delay.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Do you think you're comfortable to respond at this point?

[Dr. Sara Rodrigues]

I believe so, yes. I believe the question is, if there's so much data being collected, why don't we understand the causes of some of the issues that people are experiencing, specific to suicide?

I can't comment specifically on suicide. It isn't data that I've looked into myself, but in general—I'll elaborate on a point that I made earlier—most of the studies that are being done tend to trend in the direction of examining things like correlates, prevalence, rates of certain things and differences between men and women, if we're thinking specifically of women veterans. That data tends to be population-level data that uses dichotomized or categorical variables, so it asks if something is this way or that way.

Many of the studies that we have available in Canada don't ask questions about explanatory factors. For example, if I'm thinking about questions asked about MST in the life after service survey—just because I was looking this up recently—the line of questioning is this: Did a certain event happen, and under what circumstances did it happen? There isn't a line of questioning about the quality of support that somebody may or may not have received.

It's difficult for us to make any kind of assessment or conclusion about how to support people and improve programs and services, for example, if we're not asking that question.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you very much.

We will turn now to the NDP for a round of two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead, Ms. Blaney.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

That was really interesting in terms of making sure we ask the right questions so we can get the information required to actually understand the issue and then move forward.

I'm going to ask Dr. Courchesne a question. I have only two and a half minutes, so if I interrupt you, I apologize.

When a new injury is approved and a benefit is attached to that injury—for example, a service-related case of female infertility—I'm wondering if you can explain how that information gets disseminated to VAC staff, case managers, adjudicators and the veteran community at large, and to health care providers.

I ask because of how many women are supporting other women veterans who have a similar health issue and are not getting the support that their friends have. Now they're working together, and what they're telling me is that people don't know. I'm just wondering if you can explain that process.

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

If we were to implement a new process or, as in your example, we were approving a new injury, we would start with the staff who received those applications. We would provide them with a new process and the reasoning and all of that.

Then we would work to disseminate it within our department to the frontline workers who work with the veterans directly—the case managers and the veteran service agents. We work with our communications colleagues to put it out to our social media. We also have My VAC Account. We have a large number of people who have now registered for My VAC Account.

We use several mechanisms to disseminate the information, to get it out there.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

If there's a complaint or somebody feels like that has not happened, who do they complain to? Answer very quickly, please.

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

It's 1-800-Cyd-Courchesne.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. That's perfect.

Dr. Rodrigues, I will ask my last question.

In your research, I just want to clarify this. It sounds like you do sex aggregation and data collection. I want to make sure that's happening. When there are comparisons, are they being made to other women veterans, to spouses of military personnel, to civilian women or to male veterans?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

The answer will have to be quite brief, please.

[Dr. Sara Rodrigues]

We haven't yet embarked on data collection for this study. As we look to embark on the study design and further develop the study, we'll have a better sense of the sample size and the research questions. I apologize that I don't have more details at this time.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

If there's anything that you want to send to the committee for more detail on that one, please send it through our clerk.

We have two five-minute rounds left.

The first one is for the Conservative Party, with Mr. Fraser Tolmie.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I have two questions. They will be for Ms. Courchesne.

There are cases in which veterans are medically released from the Canadian Armed Forces with service-related injuries. They are deemed too disabled to serve, yet when they get to Veterans Affairs Canada, they're ineligible for disability benefits. What would need to happen in terms of coordination between the CAF and VAC in order to enable veterans to get care?

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

We've done a lot of work in the past five to eight years to work more closely with our colleagues in the Canadian Armed Forces. In fact, I kept an office in the CF health services headquarters, to have direct access to my colleagues there.

Very often we have informal discussions as well as participating in formal working groups. We have close collaboration with respect to benefits, treatments and the drug formulary that we administer—everything related to the seamless transition—so issues would be raised at that level.

Without a specific example of why you would be released for medical reasons and it wouldn't be recognized.... Again, there's been evolution in this area. These things can happen. When someone develops a chronic disease that wasn't related to their service, like diabetes or an infectious disease, without ever having ever deployed, that could render that person as not meeting the universality of service principles anymore.

I would say that if they are injured, it would be rare that Veterans Affairs would not recognize that injury. It would be more in the realm of illnesses that they wouldn't meet that threshold.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

We heard testimony previously that veterans who have been serving have been released with service-related injuries. I appreciate your answer, but it does not jive with what we've heard from people who have brought testimony before.

Let me ask you this in closing. Veterans fall through the cracks during the often lengthy time between their release date and when they start receiving benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada. Could you shed some light on what would need to happen in order to enable coordination between the Canadian Armed Forces and VAC to reduce that time?

[Dr. Cyd Courchesne]

It would be multifactorial. It would depend on whether the individual had applied for our services. They might be released, and they might not have put in an application.

We know that 25% of our clients are still serving members. That's the ideal time to put in applications, while they're still serving, so when we work together in our transition centres, all of that can be put into place.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Okay. I appreciate the testimony that has been brought here today.

One thing I heard earlier on was that transition for a vet would be costly, and that's a concern for me, because these are veterans who have put their lives on the line for our country. They have been away from their families; they've made huge sacrifices and they've faced difficult challenges. I hope this is not a barrier when we look at how we treat our veterans and what they've done for our country.

Thank you very much for your testimony today, and thank you very much for joining us.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you, Mr. Tolmie.

We have one final round of questioning.

I'll go to the Liberal party and Mr. Casey for five minutes.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

At the beginning of my first round, I said I wanted to get to Dr. MacLean, and I never did, so I appreciate the chance to circle back around.

Dr. MacLean, earlier in the meeting you talked about the lower rates of participation in the labour force by women, generally by women veterans specifically. You indicated that one of the reasons for that was leaving the service to be a caregiver. When pressed by Mr. Tolmie on whether that was for parents or children, you indicated that it was more likely for children.

Have I fairly summarized what we've heard on that topic?

[Dr. Mary Beth MacLean]

Yes, you have.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Your conclusion in that regard would be based on research that you did when you were a health economist with Veteran Affairs. I understand that you had a 15-year career at that.