Veterans Affairs Committee on June 10th, 2026

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Mr. Richards for five minutes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Thanks.

In reflecting on the conversation that you and I had and that you had with Mr. Casey earlier, I think I was hearing that there was some communication that's been occurring, but in the sense of “We'll sit down in the same room with you” and not in the sense of “We'll actually listen to your concerns and try to do something about them.” It's like, “Yes, we'll sit down. We're always willing to have a meeting,” but then the meeting ends, the action isn't taken and the concerns aren't addressed and dealt with. Your advice isn't being taken, I guess.

Is that a fair assessment of what we've seen here?

[Toufic El-Daher]

When we bring up a specific case, the department will address it. They take it very seriously, and they resolve it.

That said, there are several issues. We are talking about what needs to be fixed. For example, we should stop pressuring our case managers to accept a plan that is unacceptable. Often, we are asked for the name on the file, but we don't want to disclose it. We tell them about a major problem, but we are unable to provide examples.

We are unable to resolve these issues because we are always being asked for specific examples. We are asked to address each case individually. But that is not how we are going to solve a structural problem, as I said earlier.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

That's understood. I think that's exactly what I was referring to. It's great to be able to deal with the specific cases, but it's the systemic issues that you're talking about, and those aren't being addressed.

Is that what I'm hearing?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Yes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

Okay.

That leads me to the other thing I want to ask about. When you appeared before another parliamentary committee a while back—I think it was earlier in the spring—you talked about the effects of the cuts at the bureau of pensions advocates. The minister has since made a claim to the contrary that, no, in fact, these aren't cuts at all.

I want to give you an opportunity to respond to that, because we're hearing there are no cuts here, and you're telling us there absolutely are cuts. In fact, I think you used the words “devastating cuts”.

Are these cuts, and what are the effects of them?

[Toufic El-Daher]

I am telling you: There have been cuts. Several dozen employees had to leave their jobs. We kept a few employees—seven or eight—but we do not know how they were chosen.

There's obviously an impact: Veterans Review and Appeal Board hearings are being postponed by several months. In addition, there are tens of thousands of cases pending; I believe there are 25,000 or 27,000. These are facts. There will be repercussions for our veterans if we are unable to resolve this.

I believe that, within a few months, Veterans Affairs Canada will have no choice but to rehire staff, because it will be unable to reduce the wait times for our veterans. Our veterans are waiting at least six months. There have been cuts across the country, but they have really been felt in Edmonton.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Airdrie—Cochrane, AB]

I've heard veterans say they're being told that the bureau can't even take on their cases. They just don't have the people.

Delay itself can be denial, and I think that's what we're seeing there, at the very least, when they're not able to have an advocate work for them. When you talk to organizations like the Legion, they're saying they're already planning on having to hire more people to do the job that should have been done by other people. They have to fill it, because the government's made these cuts. It's a pretty big struggle.

Ms. Josephian, in terms of service providers and access to them, a lot of veterans say when they're in more remote areas or further from a major centre, they're not really able to get.... It might be an hour's drive in some cases to go see one of the providers they're being pushed to by the PCVRS system, or they may have a smaller provider that they've worked with before or something that's a bit more tailored to their specific needs and they're being cut off from those kinds of things.

Can you speak to that? Is that something you're seeing as well? What kind of impact does that have when they're no longer able to work with a trusted provider? What does that do to a veteran when they go down that road?

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

You have 10 seconds.

[Martha Josephian]

Services in remote areas are a challenge. There's no doubt about it. We are seeing clients who have a chosen provider they've worked with for some time who are not able to access services through that provider if they're not willing to be on board with PCVRS.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Mr. Clark for five minutes.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here this afternoon and for indulging us through our votes and so on. I appreciate it.

Mr. Vila, my understanding is that in addition to being a kinesiologist, you are also a reservist. Is that correct?

[Eric Vila]

Yes, that is correct.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

How long have you been a reservist?

[Eric Vila]

I've been a reservist for just under a year.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

In that case, I think you're unique in a very good way, because over the course of this study and in other studies we've done at this committee, one of the issues we've often heard from veterans is that they feel, when they're dealing with the department or whatever the case might be, that the person they're dealing with doesn't necessarily understand them as veterans. They don't understand the military and they don't understand the culture, and that can mean a whole bunch of different things.

I'm curious about your experience thus far. You've only been a reservist for a year, but in that period of time, how, in your view, has your work and experience as a reservist helped you in your work dealing with veterans in your clinic?

[Eric Vila]

It has helped quite immensely, especially on the relational side from clinician to client. It's actually one of the reasons that I decided to work with this specific Lifemark clinic. Being so close to the military base, I knew that they did work with PCVRS and veterans and, obviously, as a reservist, that's quite close to home in my heart.

I find that in having that shared experience with veterans, perhaps I'm not the same rank, the same trade or the same branch, but I understand just a little bit of that side of them, that window of their experience. It's allowed me to connect relationally with them. As a kinesiologist, I'm getting people to move their bodies in ways that they don't want to because of physical pain and the other loads, mental and emotional things, that they're carrying as well, so often they're quite physically guarded.

I have found that by sharing the information that I am a reservist, I'm not saying that I'm better than them or know exactly what they're experiencing, but I can understand a little bit of what they've gone through. It has allowed them to experience a space where they feel safe and maybe a little bit more understood than in other spaces with someone who hasn't experienced the CAF.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

It's not necessarily that it changes your approach or the work you're doing; it's kind of the ultimate icebreaker and a great way to build trust and camaraderie. Would that be a fair way to summarize it?

[Eric Vila]

Yes, it would be. It is a great way to, like you said, break the ice. I tend to not open with the line, “Hey, I'm also a serving member,” because I also recognize that some individuals have had not-so-pleasant experiences with the military. Building that clinician-client relationship and using that not as a tool to manipulate but a tool to enhance that rehabilitation relationship can be quite useful.

[Braedon Clark, Liberal, Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS]

That's wonderful. Thank you very much, and thank you for your service and the work that you're doing with veterans all the time. I appreciate it.

Mr. El-Daher, I think one of the hardest parts of this study and all the studies that we do is trying to find the balance between the stories and the experiences that come to us from veterans, which are foundational and should be the core of so much of the work we do, and the broader policy, the data and the scientific, if I can say that, implications of what we try to do.

Are you aware of any large-scale data collection effectiveness study or work that has been done on the PCVRS's work so we can balance out the experiences of the veterans with some kind of systematic approach?

[Toufic El-Daher]

There may indeed have been a study. What I can tell you is that, based on what I hear from my members across the country—I speak with many of them—we don't understand the reality of veterans' lives. We don't know what veterans, war veterans and their families are going through. We don't have that expertise.

When I was hired at Veterans Affairs Canada in 2003, we went through months and months of training. I was a veteran services officer; I wasn't even a case manager. Imagine all the training we need to take care of our veterans. Partners in Canadian Veterans Rehabilitation Services does not offer this type of training. Let's be clear: They may have a few days of training, a week at most, and that's it. They have no expertise when it comes to veterans. My employer confirmed this to me. They don't have as much training as we do. Does that mean they aren't competent? I am not attacking them.

Personally, I want our veterans to receive the best services. That's why I am here. I am not here to criticize anyone; I am here for our veterans and our members.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

We have about five minutes. I want to make sure the witnesses are comfortable with staying.

What we'll do is go two minutes and two minutes, then one minute for Madam Gaudreau.

Mr. Viersen, go ahead for two minutes.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. El-Daher, it sounds to me like you're recommending not renewing the PCVRS contract.

Could you state that clearly for the record?

[Toufic El-Daher]

Based on what I'm hearing from our members, yes, we are asking that the contract not be renewed, and we are asking that our case managers be reinstated, as was the case before this contract was awarded.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Okay.

It sounds to me like the challenge we're facing is that PCVRS has been using government funding to build an empire of clinics across the country. Rather than focusing on serving members, they have been focusing on building an empire. That's not a problem to do, but it's a very frustrating thing when it seems that there's an exclusivity clause in the contract. Now, we've been assured that this doesn't exist.

Can you confirm or deny this exclusivity? How does it work with PCVRS?

I'm sorry. You have less than one minute to explain that.