Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2026

[Alana Hirtle, Liberal, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

Mrs. DeBellefeuille, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Bussey, in your opinion, does the fact that education and training fall under provincial jurisdiction pose an obstacle to the implementation of solutions or recommendations, which are moving at a snail's pace rather than at warp speed?

[Michelle Bussey]

The short answer is no. The Canadian council of directors of apprenticeship is a collaboration between all of the jurisdictions and the federal government. Following all of the announcements in the spring with team Canada strong, there's a lot of work being done together right now to figure out how to make everything as seamless and as smooth as possible.

Having the provincial and territorial jurisdiction on education is important because there are differences between the jurisdictions. That needs to still be there, but having working tables where we all come together to talk about the differences and how we can work more quickly together to serve and meet the needs of Canada and the skilled trades is really important.

I think it's more a case of, “Let's be at the table together and figure out how to make things go as quickly as possible.”

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Vallée-du-Haut-Saint-Laurent, QC]

I don't know the situation in Nova Scotia. In Quebec, we have the Commission de la construction du Québec. Access to the construction trades is highly regulated, heavily unionized and strictly governed by agreements.

Do you have similar institutions in Nova Scotia? Is the system as well regulated as in Quebec, for example?

[Michelle Bussey]

No. From my understanding, Quebec has a very unique set-up compared to the rest of the country.

We have unionized training for the construction trades. The majority of our apprenticeship training and skilled trades training would still be done through our public colleges, but the unions are fantastic partners. They have really stepped up to help, because the demand is outpacing what we can typically do through the public colleges in Nova Scotia.

Our unionized training partners have been incredible. They've come to the table and really helped fill those gaps. They're doing everything from pre-apprenticeship to pre-employment training. They're doing what we call enhanced direct entry, and they're also now working with us on technical training, such as apprenticeship blocks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Mr. Gill for five minutes.

[Sukhman Gill, Conservative, Abbotsford—South Langley, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to start by saying thank you to all of our witnesses who are here today to make sure that we can work toward the improvements we need for military personnel transitioning into civilian life.

Dr. Whelan, I would like to start with you, sir. You touched base on some challenges veterans might face when they have the experience of going into the civilian workforce, but I want to touch specifically on the psychological side of this transition. Could you expand on that?

We know it's very difficult for veterans to transition into civilian life after years or even decades of service, especially when it comes to finding meaningful employment. Can you please touch on that?

[Dr. John Whelan]

One of the issues I see very commonly in my work and in my research is a real attention to “purpose only”, which means being task-oriented but with a real inability to transfer their identity from a military identity that's been enforced over years and decades into a culture that veterans are not accustomed to because of the types of training in the military.

I would agree with what's been said previously. Veterans need a joint initiative by the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada to reintroduce veterans to civilian society. We can't assume that they're going to walk into a situation and be able to form new relationships, negotiate conflicts or find belonging. That's the biggest issue I see, and it's also reflected in the research.

[Sukhman Gill, Conservative, Abbotsford—South Langley, BC]

Earlier when you were doing your testimony, I wrote down some things here. One of the things that stuck out to me the most was that you said the reason for leaving matters and that the supports disappear after that. We need to make sure we take into account the veteran's perspective.

These things really tie down to the fact that when somebody's leaving, there are impacts on their confidence, their sense of purpose and basically the transition to feel like they're normal again. Could you leverage on that a little bit and give me your insight on those things and those accounts?

[Dr. John Whelan]

This would be particularly relevant to the medically released folks, and there are quite a number. Worth really becomes diminished and lost in mental health or psychiatric diagnosis. Their sense of community engagement and their sense of capacity really takes a second seat to ongoing treatments.

On other kinds of releases, there are people who release voluntarily because they're frustrated. They were frustrated with the system, and there's no place to speak about those issues. We expect them to continue to sacrifice and serve when they're exhausted and when they really need a place to be able to stop, unload and really recentre themselves again. As is often said, the lingering effects of release items stay with people for years and decades. That's been my experience.

[Sukhman Gill, Conservative, Abbotsford—South Langley, BC]

That makes a lot of sense to my understanding of your research here.

That leads me to ask you this. Where are we falling short here? Where do we see the supports not tying up to making sure we can support the ones who need longevity support, people who have psychological barriers they need to break through? Where are we lacking here?

[Dr. John Whelan]

I don't dispute that, as has been said, there are a lot of committed, hard-working people. A big part of the issue is the separation between the Canadian Armed Forces and Veterans Affairs Canada.

When we think about transition, it is not, “You've left, so we're finished with you.” Release begins when people first begin to think about it, when they're first notified of a medical condition. It begins long before people leave uniform, and it continues long after they leave. They may become a client of Veterans Affairs Canada, but there has to be some initiative that follows them from the point of considering releasing within the military and continues over time, and is evaluated independently. I think we need that data.

[Sukhman Gill, Conservative, Abbotsford—South Langley, BC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much, Mr. Gill.

Now we will complete our round two.

Mrs. Chatel, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for joining us today for this important study.

I agree with you, Mr. Stoffer. Veterans and Canadian Armed Forces members are the people who work to ensure that we can all sit here today and live in a democracy and a sovereign country. We must indeed think of them as they make the transition to civilian life.

The profile of veterans has changed significantly in two key ways. The first is age. The average age is 34. We must also consider the fact that they need a rewarding career. They want to continue serving their country and we need them.

Second, they're working on dual‑use technologies. They're now increasingly involved in drones, cybersecurity, aerospace, maintenance and shipbuilding, among other areas. I'm thinking of icebreaker maintenance, for example.

Canada also needs young workers in this age group. I looked at the statistics. They show that, over the next 10 years, we'll need 593,000 workers in Red Seal trades. Our schools can't train them, but some people have received training in these trades. The recognition of these diplomas isn't just a service provided to veterans. It's a service provided to Canada.

Ms. Bussey, I was really happy to hear you say earlier that we need to take care of the training program and the recognition of diplomas while these people are serving in the military. Could you tell us more about this key issue?

[Michelle Bussey]

I can give you an example of what we're trying to do here in Nova Scotia.

We're trying to see what it would take to actually work with the military community here so that as the young people are starting their military service, they're also working towards their apprenticeship and are tied directly into apprenticeship right from that moment. When they're in the military, they can start getting their Red Seal and can still serve in the military with a Red Seal. Then when they come out, they're ready to go with the Red Seal, as well as with all of the years of service and experience that they have.

Those are things that we are trying to explore here in Nova Scotia to see what we might be able to do to make that transition even easier.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

I think you are an example in Nova Scotia. We need to do the same thing all across Canada. We have to start early so that when they become veterans, they have their Red Seal certification and have started an apprenticeship with a civilian industry and are ready to go.

In the public service transition to becoming a pensioner, people receive five years in advance training to get ready to be a retiree. We give veterans six months. I think we have to start to think about a much earlier transition, one that will start while they are doing their service.

I'd like to understand. I saw the other witnesses shaking their heads, so please intervene, Dr. Whelan, and then Mr. Stoffer.

[Dr. John Whelan]

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Six months isn't enough time to prepare for a transition. We should start earlier, shouldn't we?

[Dr. John Whelan]

Yes, we should, absolutely.

As I said earlier, transition really begins while people are still serving. As soon as they become aware that they may be leaving, whether by their own choice or for medical or administrative reasons, the transition process and some of these issues should start.

[Sophie Chatel, Liberal, Pontiac—Kitigan Zibi, QC]

Go ahead, Mr. Stoffer, for 20 seconds.

[Peter Stoffer]

Yes, there is no question that it needs to start an awful lot earlier, but the key is not to have a whole bunch of people interfering in the veteran's transition. They need to narrow it down to one or maybe two people that the person feels comfortable with, fully understand what their opportunities are and be able to talk to that one individual in those terms. That means you need highly trained people and transition specialists within DND and DVA in order to meet that need.

I will just say briefly to members of Parliament that one day you're going to transition back to being a regular Joe or Jane, so you have to ask yourself how difficult that is. All you need to do is talk to former members of Parliament who were either defeated or left on their own to know how difficult it was to transition back to their regular lives. If you think of it that way, that's exactly what our veterans are going through when they leave the military. There's no difference. They need assistance and they need guidance. They need help in order to move forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Thank you very much.

This will complete our first hour with our panel. I want to say thank you very much to Dr. Whelan, Ms. Bussey and Mr. Stoffer for your time. Certainly, Dr. Whelan, thank you for your service to our country and your continuation of service.

To all of you, we will be suspending to welcome our next panel.

[The Chair, Liberal, Marie-France Lalonde]

Good afternoon again. I call this meeting back to order.

I would like to make a few remarks for the benefit of the new witnesses.

Before speaking, please wait until I call you by name.

For the interpretation, the people in the room can use the headset and select the appropriate channel.

We're honoured to welcome representatives from the City of Ottawa Veterans Task Force. We're joined by Andrée Paige, co‑chair, and Priya Bhaloo, pillar lead for career transition.

From Helmets to Hardhats, we have Mr. Darryl Cathcart, national director of training and development, and Mr. Dave Giannou, director for the Atlantic region.

We will start by giving each of the organizations five minutes to deliver opening remarks. After this, the rest of the hour, as you might have seen, will be a series of questions with the members of the committee.

Madame Paige, the floor is yours for five minutes.