Debates of Nov. 15th, 1994

East Timor

[Nic Leblanc, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. East Timor has been occupied by Indonesia since 1975. About 200,000 people are believed to have died following the repression that is still plaguing that country. In 1991, the current Prime Minister asked Canada to press for the implementation of United Nations resolutions demanding that Indonesia withdraw from Timor.

How can the Minister of Foreign Affairs explain the Prime Minister's silence on this issue during his trip to Indonesia?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to inform the hon. member that, in fact, the matter of East Timor was the subject of discussions between President Suharto and Prime Minister Chrétien.

[Nic Leblanc, Bloc, Longueuil, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the minister probably knows, according to Amnesty International, every day in East Timor people are oppressed, beaten and even killed. Can the minister tell us how the Prime Minister, who is now in Indonesia, can go back on his past commitments and miss such a great opportunity to advance the cause of human rights?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think that the hon. member's comments are totally unfounded. In fact, during his visit to Indonesia, the Prime Minister announced that the Government of Canada, through the Canadian International Development Agency, would finance a project with Care Canada to help the people of East Timor.

Health Care

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the health minister has recently hammered Alberta for private health clinics and their facility fees. Could the minister please tell us how the facility fees in Alberta are different from facility fees elsewhere in Canada?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his question.

The Canada Health Act states a province must provide for insured health services on uniform terms and conditions and on a basis that does not impede or preclude either directly or indirectly, whether by charges made to insured persons or otherwise, reasonable access to those services.

Some of these clinics get public funds because the physician fees are paid. Therefore access is precluded or is impeded for certain people because they cannot afford to pay the facility fees.

That is a very big concern of this government. We do not want a medicare system which benefits the healthy and the wealthy at the expense of the sick and the ordinary Canadian.

[Grant Hill, Reform, Macleod, AB]

Mr. Speaker, private clinics everywhere in Canada operate on this principle. For instance, Mediclub Montreal conducts executive health exams exactly this way. Abortion clinics in seven provinces charge facility fees between $200 and $500 paid privately, the doctor's fee paid publicly.

How can there be one set of rules for Alberta and another set of rules for everyone else? Good luck.

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, facility fees concern me wherever they are charged when there are public dollars involved. The objective of this government is to maintain a system which has served this country very well.

Average Canadians elected us to safeguard that system and that is what we are going to do, that is what we are doing.

Unemployment Insurance

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Yesterday, the minister repeated that he intends to turn short-term employees into second-class unemployed who would receive reduced benefits, based on their family income, or even no benefits at all in some cases.

How can the minister consider forcing workers to pay unemployment insurance premiums only to deprive them of their benefits afterwards?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, all we released yesterday was a technical paper. I would remind the hon. member that her leader in the opening debate on social reform was in some high dudgeon demanding that we provide technical information as to what the various impacts of different proposals would be.

We have now supplied that. I suppose when we supplied it we found that the Bloc Quebecois did not like the look of that information.

They are simply facts. They are simply information. We know the Bloc Quebecois does not like to deal with the facts. We see

that evidenced every day in the House but those are the facts and I would ask the hon. member to look carefully at what they mean and the implications of them.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister realize that he is once again jeopardizing the financial independence women worked so hard to achieve, by proposing that family income be assessed before eligibility for unemployment insurance benefits is determined?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, in my province of Manitoba if we look at the analysis that has been done there are over 600 frequent users of unemployment insurance who have incomes of over $75,000.

There are a lot of working people who are paying hard earned premiums to pay for those kinds of unnecessary requirements and we are simply asking Canadians whether they think that is fair. Do they think it is fair that people who are raising incomes of over $100,000 should be receiving full benefits when somebody who is making $15,000 or $20,000 is paying the premiums for them? Does the hon. member think that is fair?

Gun Control

[Jim Jordan, Liberal, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice. It concerns the proposed new gun control legislation.

Although it means a slight invasion of my privacy I am prepared to register my guns if I am required to do so. However, a high registration fee will reduce the level of co-operation and the level of compliance that the minister will need if he is going to implement this legislation.

Can the minister give me assurance that if there is a requirement for gun registration it would be at a very minimal cost to the owner?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, as my hon. colleague knows, we are even now preparing proposals to bring before the House within the coming weeks in relation to firearms.

Should the decision be to proceed with a system of registration it will only be on the basis that such a system can be established through a reasonable outlay of capital costs, that such a system will be reliable in terms of storing and retrieving information and that such a system would involve an expense to the firearm owner that was reasonable. My friend used the word minimal and that is precisely what we would aim to achieve.

Members Of Parliament

[Cliff Breitkreuz, Reform, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance repeatedly asks for ways to cut the deficit. We have been giving numerous suggestions over the years to reduce government spending and here is another one.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister show leadership and take action now before November 21 to reform the unbelievably rich MP pension plan?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has already told the House that he intends to have a package before the House before the end of this year.

[Cliff Breitkreuz, Reform, Yellowhead, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Deputy Prime Minister: when, when?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I think I answered the question: soon, soon, soon.

Patent Drugs

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health. Yesterday, I asked the minister what her position is regarding the revision of Bill C-91 on the protection of patent drugs, but she let the Minister of Industry sweet-talk us and repeat that Bill C-91 contains a review provision which will come into effect at a given time.

What we want to know of the minister who is still responsible for health is wether she is in favour of the existing protection for patent drugs or whether she advocates a change in regulations as several of her Ontario colleagues do. We want to know what she thinks as Minister of Health.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, members of the Bloc Quebecois seem to have trouble understanding that in the division of ministerial responsibility some of us take responsibilities where they lie.

In the case of patent legislation it lies with the Department of Industry. If they wish to direct questions to the government concerning patent law they will get answers from me. I hope, as the questioner indicated, I will prove to be as consistent in my answers as she alleges I have been.

[Pauline Picard, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, obviously, the Minister of Health was instructed not to make her position known, but I want to remind her that she cannot negate her responsibility concerning the certification of new drugs.

Does the minister realize that her refusal to take position on the issue of patent drugs intensifies the climate of uncertainty and implicitly encourages those who do not want protection for new drugs.

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps a brief lesson in constitutional law would be in order.

As the members of the Bloc will understand we have a position as a government. This is unlike the Bloc, which does not seem to have a position at all.

If I understand what the critic for health of the Bloc Quebecois is saying, she wants a change. She is talking about the costs of health care. I would like to understand exactly what her position is on this issue. If she wants to get up and state what it is I will be happy to hear from her on it.

Forest Industry

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs. During the past year both the federal government and the province of B.C. have been spending money in Europe to defend Canadian logging practices.

At the same time and completely opposite to the previously mentioned programs, the minister's department has been funding, through CIDA, Canadian environmental groups that actively discredit B.C. logging practices in North America and in Europe.

Why is the government funding groups whose main purpose is to deliberately undermine the Canadian forest industry?

[André Ouellet, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I want to say to the hon. member that this is a legitimate question. I will inquire immediately and find out if his allegations are correct.

If they are I assure him that we will stop any funding of this kind.

The Environment

[Charles Caccia, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. In 1990 the government of the day promised a discussion paper following which an oceans act would be introduced in the House. Neither the discussion paper nor the bill saw the light of day.

The proposed act would protect the quality of Canada's coastal waters and oceans. In view of the importance of three oceans to Canada's well-being I would like to ask the minister if he can indicate to us whether an oceans act will be introduced in the House?