Debates of Nov. 18th, 1994

National Defence

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again I am shocked at the tone of this question that denigrates an outstanding Canadian high technology company and one that is based in the province of Quebec. I would like the hon. member to explain that to his constituents in the province of Quebec.

The fact is that Unisys is meeting its obligations. Where there may be some problems in terms of expenditures or some minor modifications that have to be made to the systems that are integrated within the Canadian patrol frigates, those are being addressed in the normal way.

Dangerous Offenders

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, today Correctional Services will be releasing Wray Budreo. Despite having a 30-year history of molesting children, Budreo has to be released because his latest sentence has expired.

In the past the Solicitor General has always stated that the government felt these individuals could be detained under the provincial Mental Health Act. That did not work in Budreo's case.

What steps will the government take now to protect society from sexual predators like Wray Budreo?

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, indeed Mr. Budreo was released this morning after serving his full sentence. However, I could tell the hon. member that all police forces-federal, provincial and municipal-have been informed of his presence in Ontario.

[English]

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this House has my Bill C-240 before it, which could prevent the release of dangerous offenders like Budreo. However, the government says it will not support Bill C-240 because it may be against the charter rights of sexual predators like Budreo.

When is this government going to have the courage to concern itself with the rights of victims and potential victims of predators like Budreo?

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I do share the concerns of the hon. member.

I remind the hon. member there currently is a federal task force concerning high risk offenders. It is presently examining effective ways to deal with these offenders. A report will be handed in sometime in January.

I should also add that the Solicitor General also rendered public the existence of a national system on trying to screen out sex offenders who might try to come into contact with children through various organizations across Canada. It is a priority of this government to protect children from sex offenders.

National Defence

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question if for the Minister of National Defence.

The case of the Canadian patrol frigates demonstrates that the government paid for products which were never delivered or which did not meet the requirements of the department. We have learned that of the 37 applications of the combat training system which were to be designed by Unisys GSG, only one has been delivered.

How can the minister explain that he paid Unisys for a complete combat training system and is getting only one of the 37 applications requested?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, again I am surprised at the line of questioning in terms of criticizing the work of this company.

I explained to the hon. member's colleague earlier that when one develops new high technology systems inevitably problems will occur in the development, especially when dealing with integrated high tech systems.

The requirements made by the CPF program from Unisys had some problems in development. They have since been resolved or are in the process of being resolved. I fail to see why the hon. member continues to persist in trying to undermine not only the integrity of this company, but the fact that the Canadian patrol frigate is the best of its class in the world.

[Maurice Dumas, Bloc, Argenteuil—Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, why is the Minister of National Defence not launching a public inquiry which would show that the federal government is incapable of managing its large capital programs?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the one positive thing I can say is that we announced in the budget that in the future we would be moving to the acquisition of off the shelf products in military procurement as much as we could. This means that the teething problems caused by research and development in high technology equipment for the armed forces will be borne by a commercial manufacturer. Such equipment that we would buy would be commercial but would have a military application.

Hopefully in the future we can get away from some of the problems the hon. member has described. It is interesting to note that the special committee on defence policy also recommended that the government pursue this line of acquisition more vigorously.

Agriculture

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Does this minister believe in democracy and the democratic rights of farmers to control their own industry?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, it is difficult to know exactly what the hon. member is getting at, except I have an inkling it has to do with marketing systems in western Canada. Obviously the government believes in democracy.

With respect to the issue of marketing systems, as the hon. member knows, that is a subject upon which different farmers in western Canada hold profoundly different opinions. There has been a variety of meetings, rallies and demonstrations on the subject on both sides of the issue.

That is why I have undertaken to provide the opportunity for a very thorough forum through these winter months. Farmers from the different points of view on the issue will have a full opportunity to discuss that matter in an open, logical, objective fashion and not with the excesses of rhetoric that we hear from the Reform Party.

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the minister obviously has a funny way of showing his belief in democracy.

This is another classic case of Liberal democracy. Farmers in western Canada have developed a new special crops act. Yet the Canadian Grain Commission has ordered seed cleaning and special crop elevator operators to pay up to $20,000 in licensing and bonding fees or get shut down by the law.

If the minister believes in democracy, when will he get his bureaucrats under control and get them working for farmers? Why will he not immediately introduce new special crops legislation?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

The simple reason, Mr. Speaker, that the decision with respect to special crops takes some time is that there are a good many farmers in western Canada who disagree with the proposals that have been advanced.

It is important to thoroughly analyse all of the various options that are available for the regulation of special crops. The issue is one of the level of protection that ought to be provided under the law to ensure that farmers have security in dealing with special crops dealers. That is the issue we are examining among other technical ones having to do with special crops.

It is very important to ensure that the appropriate regulatory structure be put in place and not one that is too onerous upon farmers or upon the industry.

Air Transportation

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

The chambers of commerce in several regions of Quebec have accused Air Canada and Canadian International of conspiring to eliminate competition in the regions. These companies are allegedly fixing higher prices for area service in order to subsidize international flights, where the competition is fierce.

Does the Minister of Transport agree that the staggering increase in airfare since 1988 is killing our regional economies and that it shows that deregulation is ineffective in stimulating competition in the airline industry?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member raises some very important questions.

Allegations of a conspiracy by airlines to fix prices and so forth raise some very thorny questions, and I would like to emphasize that if those who are concerned about this problem are really looking for answers and want to look into the matter more thoroughly, they should exercise their right to express their concerns to the National Transportation Agency, in addition to perhaps consulting the Competition Act.

The allegations made are serious ones, and I believe that the airlines and all those involved in the sector have the right to see these allegations made and directed to the right quarter. If an investigation is necessary, then one should be held, in order to shed some light on the question raised by the hon. member.

[Bernard St-Laurent, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, given that these questions are indeed very sensitive, thorny to use the minister's word, does he intend to look into the allegations made by the Quebec chambers of commerce and ask the competition bureau to conduct an investigation into the allegations of collusion, for we are talking about allegations of collusion, an extremely serious charge, between the major airline carriers and their subsidiaries in order to eliminate regional competition?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I repeat my concern for the rights of companies and the shareholders of those companies to have an opportunity to deal with the issues raised by the hon. member.

There is a competition bureau as well as the National Transportation Agency. I would think that members of the opposition would understand why a minister of the crown would be very hesitant to consider directing those agencies. They are quasi-judicial agencies of which we have heard a great deal from the opposition over the past few weeks.

If there is a legitimate grievance that reflects the concerns raised by the hon. member, the chambers of commerce or interested citizens should direct their complaints and the allegations that have been referred to by the hon. member directly to the competition bureau and/or the National Transportation Agency. They can be dealt with by those quasi-judicial agencies

that have to operate under their own rules under the law and not under the direction of any minister of the crown.

Highway 416

[Jim Jordan, Liberal, Leeds—Grenville, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the President of the Treasury Board. It has to do with highway 416 in eastern Ontario.

The current Ontario government's lack of commitment to eastern Ontario was never better illustrated than the recent suggestion of a user pay highway from the 401 into the nation's capital. The federal government's commitment to this project on a shared cost basis is well known and I applaud the minister for condemning outright the idea of a toll road.

With no interest in financing the toll road, what alternative for getting the project moving is the minister exploring at this time?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the need for this highway and I also know of the vigorous effort put forward by the member for Leeds-Grenville in this endeavour.

I therefore suggested to the provincial government in the springtime that we fund it under the Canada-Ontario infrastructure works program. It did not respond to that and did not put in an application. In fact the provincial government indicated a reluctance.

In the summertime I suggested a strategic transportation improvement program as another way it might be able to rework some priorities to help fund this. That is a shared program as well. The only response came back just a few weeks ago in terms of the proposition of tolls. If the province of Ontario is going to do this by tolls we are not interested in getting into the funding. I also wonder whether it even meets the province's criteria for what would qualify as a toll road.

I would be quite happy and in fact would like to meet with the new minister of transport in Ontario to further explore the infrastructure works program and the strategic transportation improvement program for funding of this necessary project.

Canadian Wheat Board

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Recent polls and rallies have shown that farmers want an elected board of directors to run the Canadian Wheat Board. What action is the minister prepared to take to give farmers their wish to have an elected board instead of an appointed one?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure that very interesting proposition is one of the ideas that will be discussed during the winter in the forum we are conducting with respect to marketing systems in western Canada, particularly the operations of the Canadian Wheat Board.

Other marketing agencies around the world could be examined as models for their precedential value in corporate governance, matters relating to marketing systems.

It is an idea that a number of farmers have suggested. In some studies conducted previously four or five years ago the idea was advanced as an alternative in terms of corporate governance. It is an idea I am sure farmers will want to explore very thoroughly and I am determined to provide them with the opportunity to do that.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question for the minister. Farmers know what they want and it is time to listen to their demands.

Why will the minister never listen to farmers' wishes or input but continually gives his ear to special interest groups no matter what farmers' concerns are?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, I probably spend the majority of my time as minister of agriculture listening very carefully to farmers.

From time to time they are represented by their official organizations. On other occasions and very valuably, individual farmers take the opportunity to raise concerns with me either in person, by mail or in public meetings of various kinds.

The input from farmers is the most valuable advice that a minister of agriculture can receive. It is important to note the distinction between the valid and legitimate advice and opinion that is offered by farmers and the sometimes rather twisted point of view one hears from the Reform Party.

Air Safety

[Madeleine Dalphond-Guiral, Bloc, Laval Centre, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport.

On October 28, the Official Opposition called the minister's attention to excerpts of a Transport Canada's inspection report in which major irregularities were noted with respect to the maintenance control system for aircraft owned by Royal Aviation Inc.

The minister was to look into the situation and take corrective action. Now that he has had the time to look into this situation, does the minister not agree that this carrier's maintenance control program is totally inadequate? And can he tell us what steps were taken to remedy the situation?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, when the issue was raised, as the hon. member pointed out, we looked into the matter. There were indeed deficiencies in the control system. There were problems and these were corrected.

I want to reassure my hon. colleague that not only was the situation looked into, but that appropriate corrective action was taken and the company now operates within the regulations issued by Transport Canada.