Debates of Nov. 24th, 1994

Government Expenditures

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, during the election campaign, the Prime Minister waved around the red ink book and told Canadians that he had the plan. It is in fact the Reform Party that has the plan to deal with the country's deficit and debt.

In the presentation to the finance committee today, the Reform Party outlined $10 billion in specific expenditure reductions. This is the first phase of an updated zero in three plan to eliminate the deficit in three years. The presentation pointed out the absolute necessity of going beyond the government's 3 per cent target if we are to preserve Canada's fiscal integrity.

Unlike the government, whose fiscal plan will add $100 billion to the debt bringing the total to an astronomical figure of over $611 billion, the Reform Party's plan tackles the economic problems of the country in a responsible manner.

We have set out a clear time frame for eliminating the deficit and we challenge the government to do the same.

Junior Football Champions

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to acknowledge the accomplishments of the Regina Rams junior football team from Saskatchewan.

On November 11 the Regina Rams had a day to remember when they won their 12th national football championship against the St. Leonard Cougars in Montreal. It was their second consecutive Canadian junior football championship.

It came as no surprise to Regina fans to see their team win by a score of 52 to 6. The Rams lost only one of the 25 games they played this season.

Despite their excellent record, the Regina Rams Football Club is about more than winning. It teaches teamwork and gives to these young men an opportunity to develop confidence and maturity. I am proud of all these fine players.

I would also like to offer special congratulations to Coach Frank McCrystal for his leadership and to congratulate Darryl Leason, the offensive star player, and Randy Sorchensky, the defensive star player.

I ask all parliamentarians to join with me today to congratulate the Regina Rams on winning the Canadian Junior Football Championships.

Senator Jean-Robert Gauthier

[Ben Serré, Liberal, Timiskaming—French-River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is to be commended on his judicious appointment of Jean-Robert Gauthier to the Senate of Canada.

Mr. Gauthier faithfully served Canada and his constituents in Ottawa-Vanier for 22 years. For many years he championed the cause of Canada's francophone minority as well as that of other minorities, all of which are part of Canada's cultural mosaic.

I am sure that Senator Jean-Robert Gauthier will continue to serve Canada faithfully and with passion. I would ask all members on all sides of the House, and especially the hon. member for Rosemont, to join me in congratulating our senator and wishing him the very best in the Upper House.

Bloc Quebecois

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I rise to challenge recent comments of the hon. leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

During the 1993 election, Bloc candidates said they would stay on as members of Parliament only up to the referendum. Yesterday, the Leader of the Bloc Quebecois said that the members of his party will stay even if the majority of Quebecers reject their party's mandate.

A member of the Parliament of Canada must realize that even if it is his duty to represent his riding, he must work for Canada first. Bloc members keep saying that Canada's institutions do not work.

If that is true-and it is not-why are they so determined to stay after a defeat in the referendum?

Situation In Bosnia

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, in retaliation for NATO air raids on their positions, the Serb forces have taken peacekeepers hostage, including 55 Canadians, in Visoko, all the while pursuing their offensive on the Muslim enclave of Bihac. In addition, some 1,200 peacekeepers under Canadian command are presently in a very vulnerable position as they find themselves besieged by Serb troops.

Can the Prime Minister bring us up to date on the situation of these Canadian peacekeepers being held hostage and the progress the UN is making in its negotiations with Serb authorities to have them released?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition gave a very accurate account of the situation. Fifty-five members of the Canadian Armed Forces are presently detained near Visoko, in an area under Bosnian Serb control.

I have been informed that they are well, thank goodness, and that negotiations are under way between the Serbs and the Canadian commanding officer. I hope that the situation will soon be resolved.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister confirm the statement made by Brigadier-General Ashton, to the effect that Canadian peacekeepers may not be released for another four or five days?

Are we to conclude that this is the way the Serb forces have found to finish off their offensive on Bihac without further disruption from NATO raids?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think that the Leader of the Opposition is quite correct in his analysis. I cannot say whether our troops will be released earlier than in four or five days. It is too early to tell.

It is somewhat premature to speculate on how long our soldiers will be detained. There is no question that it is tied in with the NATO air strikes. There is no question that there is an escalation of rhetoric and threat against UNPROFOR members in general but our personnel in particular. As I said a moment ago they are in good shape. There are negotiations going on between the Bosnian Serb authorities and the Canadian officers on the ground.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister indicate the position that Canada defended today at the NATO meeting, held in Brussels, regarding the advisability of new air strikes in order to discourage the Serbian forces from carrying out further attacks in Bihac? What are the risks that new raids would pose for the security of United Nations soldiers either held hostage or under siege?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, in a difficult situation like this one I do not think we should speculate about the effects of further air strikes.

NAC was in session today in Brussels. We were engaged in those discussions. We are now being debriefed on the outcome, as to whether or not there is any change in the position of NATO in consultation with the United Nations. As soon as we have further information we will inform the leaders of the other parties.

Post-Secondary Education

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Quebec federation of university professors sounded an alarm about social program reform, which it called an unprecedented threat to Quebec's education system. The federation estimates that the reform will result in a $721-million shortfall of cash transfers and also tax points, through the abolition of Quebec's special abatement.

In order to alleviate the legitimate concerns of Quebec's entire academic community, does the Prime Minister promise not to unilaterally review the agreement with Quebec that was negotiated under the Lesage government, which provides for a transfer of tax points to finance post-secondary education in Quebec?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we want every interested group to express its views on reform. All the elements raised by the hon. member will be considered by the committee reviewing the matter. Committee members will, I hope, have a chance to study the comments made by academics so that the recommendations to the government, in their report, will take everybody's interests into account.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we note that the Prime Minister did not take the opportunity to reassure the academic community.

How can he justify his government's attack on post-secondary education when Canada's major challenge is to compete internationally with other industrialized countries by relying on increasingly well-educated people? How can he justify his position?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member should analyze the paper tabled by the Minister of Human Resources Development. He will realize that the government's intention is to find a way to make more money

available to universities. However, if people would rather maintain the status quo, we will consider that option.

But all members should be given the chance to analyze all relevant factors. The minister clearly intends to see how, in this era of budget constraints, we can find the extra money needed to allow more Canadians to take advantage of our excellent universities across the country.

Finance

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, today Reform members of the finance committee tabled a proposal for government spending and government spending cuts that totalled $9.4 billion, with the principles attached, all in areas of non-social program spending.

My question is for the Minister of State for Finance. When will the government be releasing for public discussion its own principles and proposals for dealing with federal public spending?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for finally seeing the Reform Party making some positive suggestions. I am delighted to see he has taken the advice of the Minister of Finance to make some positive suggestions.

We are very happy to consider those suggestions along with those of all other Canadians. I am delighted to see that the Reform Party has joined in the consultation process which it has criticized in the past. We will consider those suggestions along with those of everybody else.

If the Reform Party member does not realize it, the answer to his question is when we bring down the budget next February.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting. We have the finance committee travelling round the country. Virtually every group and organization has presented proposals for the federal budget. And after a year we still have no fiscal policy from the Government of Canada.

Since the Minister of Finance appeared before the committee a month ago and admitted that his budget projections were all wrong, the Canadian dollar has lost over a cent in international markets and interest rates have risen steadily as a consequence.

I have a supplementary question. Does the government have any proposal for dealing with the deteriorating financial situation other than raising interest rates?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, the suggestion that we have no fiscal policy runs counter to the statement of the hon. member for Capilano-Howe Sound who gave the finance minister a 90 per cent mark.

Of course the government has a fiscal policy. We had a fiscal policy of bringing the deficit down to 3 per cent of GDP. We had that before we were elected and we have that now. The Prime Minister has maintained it and the Minister of Finance has maintained it.

That is our policy and we will do that in the third year of our mandate.

[Stephen Harper, Reform, Calgary West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Capilano-Howe Sound gave the government good marks for realizing that all its fiscal assumptions during the campaign were wrong.

My supplementary question is for the same minister. The reason for the lack of confidence in the financial market is clearly the government's fiscal policy.

Does the minister admit that the goal of reducing the deficit to 3 per cent of GNP is completely inadequate in a period of economic growth?

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, we have never said that our target of 3 per cent of GDP in the third year of our mandate was a final result. We have said that is an interim target on the way to a balanced budget.

It is an interim target. It is achievable and we intend to get to that target of 3 per cent.

Social Program Reform

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The Minister of Human Resources Development said yesterday that the technical papers on social program reform which he has tabled in recent weeks answer the concerns expressed by the Auditor General in his report. Nevertheless, at a press conference two days ago, the Auditor General said that several issues are outstanding, even though these additional documents have been presented:

Some information has already been published on that. I think there is a lack of credible evaluation of the effect or the results produced by those programs so far.

Can the Prime Minister tell us what he intends to do to answer the Auditor General's concerns about the incompleteness of the information which has been made public?

[Ethel Blondin-Andrew, Liberal, Secretary of State (Training and Youth)]

Mr. Speaker, the committee has been travelling across the country as that is happening and undertaking the social security reform exercise.

There have been a number of technical papers put forward. Those papers have provided information that is very important to the way in which the social security reform is undertaken.

In relation to that also we have been listening to Canadians across the country through the committee. They have let us know what the effects have been on their lives and their communities. We are very sensitive to that and that will be integrated into the direction the government takes on the overall reform.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, only four of the nine technical papers on social program reform have been tabled to date, a few weeks before the consultation ends.

[The Speaker]

I would ask the hon. member to please not use accessories.

[Francine Lalonde, Bloc, Mercier, QC]

Does the Prime Minister not agree that the consultation is thus being rushed because the only purpose of the reform is in fact to lower the federal deficit, despite what the finance minister said about social programs not being the cause of the deficit or the debt?