Debates of Dec. 8th, 1994

Bosnia

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in reaction to the French government's call for a withdrawal of peacekeepers from Bosnia the Prime Minister said: "Probably they want to reassure their own people". Those are the Prime Minister's words.

I ask the Prime Minister: Does this government wish to reassure Canadians now that the hostages are free by moving to withdraw our troops?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said that it is very important for everyone to plan to make sure that if there is a situation, for example the lifting of the embargo, we said we were to go. If there were to be some other disastrous situation we have to have a plan ready to make sure our troops can be evacuated. We have been working on that for many months.

We have been in contact too with NATO and the UN to make sure the plans are ready if evacuation is needed. I hope it will not be needed, but it is very good to do the planning now in case we have the need later.

Mil Davie Shipyard

[Maurice Godin, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

The MIL Davie shipyard, the only other bidder for an important Hibernia contract, has clearly been wronged by the Hibernia consortium's decision to award the contract to Saint John Shipbuilding without a call for tenders. The Canada-Newfoundland Board, the Minister of Natural Resources and the Prime Minister have all admitted that. The Hibernia consortium has itself ignored the Prime Minister's directive by flatly refusing to review its decision.

How can the Prime Minister explain that, despite the clear directive issued by him to the president of the consortium, Mr. Ken Hall, Hibernia has refused to redress the injustice to which he has himself so strongly objected?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I made a complaint last week. I was in Newfoundland yesterday. The people who had been awarded the first contract lost it for productivity reasons.

I think the company should not have acted in this way. I have said it clearly, but since we own only 8.5 per cent of the company's shares, we cannot force it to change its decision. I

still think it is a bad decision for both the Newfoundland shipyard and the Quebec shipyard.

[Maurice Godin, Bloc, Châteauguay, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how can the Prime Minister admit to his inability to force Hibernia to respect his decision when the federal government is investing over $3 billion of taxpayers' money in this risky venture?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, the Canadian government has funded 8.5 per cent of the total project.

Shipbuilding

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. Will the minister ensure that federal contracts for new ships and the major repair of ships are done in an open, transparent manner? Will all interested parties such as private companies and those owned by subsidized provinces be required to compete by rules as set forward in the proper business supplier-customer manner?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member that first, it is the government's policy where it does have shipbuilding requirements to meet them from Canadian yards. Second, as the Prime Minister himself has stated very clearly in this House and elsewhere, that should be done through a clear, transparent, open bidding process.

Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for ACOA.

The country is on its knees financially and the minister stands on a soapbox in Atlantic Canada making noises about ending ACOA's role in handing out grants. Yet at the same time he says ACOA will be involved in providing venture capital to businesses, a function already performed by the Federal Business Development Bank.

Can the minister explain how this move will serve to level the playing field for businesses in Atlantic Canada when it is clear to everyone that taxpayers' dollars will be spent foolishly through a political body?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I was anticipating an apology from the hon. member today. Yesterday in a press release he made the ridiculous suggestion that a linkage may exist between a third party contribution to Liberal election campaigns and the receipt of ACOA assistance. I want to say to the hon. member that is patently false. I hope he will do the honourable thing and apologize to the minister of fisheries and myself when he joins his feet in a moment.

With regard to the question he has asked, the Atlantic venture capital fund we are proposing is to be done in co-operation with provincial governments as well as the private sector.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, am I supposed to join my feet now?

I do not think this government gets it. In 1992-93 alone ACOA wrote off over $50 million in bad debts. When will these Liberals learn that governments know very little if nothing about running business? Does the minister know the difference between a grant and a loan that is not repaid at taxpayers' expense? If these loans are all going to be repaid, why not let FBDB or the banks fill the role? Why do we need two government agencies to provide the exercise?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I thought if the hon. member would join his feet perhaps now he can keep his mouth shut.

The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

I would encourage all hon. members to address others with a little more respect on both sides. I call on the hon. minister of public works.

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Cape Breton—East Richmond, NS]

Mr. Speaker, as I said in my first answer, I was anticipating an apology because of the assertions that the hon. member made.

The House should be aware that the reference to the minister of fisheries and myself is patently false. The House should know that when the chief of staff of the office of the leader of the Reform Party ran in the last federal election, he received from a contributor not one, not two, but $8,000 from Clearwater Fine Foods. That particular company received financial assistance from ACOA both before and after the election.

I think the hon. member owes the House an apology.

[The Speaker]

Both the questions and the answers are ranging far afield today.

Customs Brokers

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Revenue. The Department of National Revenue is about to implement, in January 1995, new regulations which will penalize the small customs brokerage

firms. They will require surety bonds of up to $10 million for the goods they clear through customs.

Given the very negative impact of that decision on the existence of small customs brokers, does the Minister of National Revenue intend to answer their demands in the near future?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, the problem relating to the failure of these customs agents to which the hon. member referred is a serious one because the moneys they take in which are due to the Government of Canada is lost in many cases when the companies go bankrupt.

In addition, there are some major problems with respect to the amount of capitalization that some of these companies have. This means that assets are very few and slight even though the individual who may own the company may have other assets of considerable worth.

We have therefore instituted, in co-operation with the Association of Customs Brokers, a new scheme to provide adequate insurance for those who might be faced with financial difficulties. This scheme has been accepted by the association and accepted by the department. I believe it is a beneficial scheme to make sure that the problems that arise, in particular for the customers of customs brokers, will not reoccur in the future.

[Ghislain Lebel, Bloc, Chambly, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister knows very well that members of that association, including the large American companies, have the right to one vote for each office they operate in different districts. Therefore, the process is totally undemocratic.

Does the Minister of National Revenue recognize that if the proposed regulations were to be implemented in their present form, it could force several small independent customs brokers out of business and that would mean several thousand jobs lost for Canadians?

[David Anderson, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Mr. Speaker, when new measures are introduced with respect to insurance provisions it is always possible that some people will be in such financial position that they will be unable to obtain insurance, whether through their association or outside it. That is a possibility.

However, I would assure the hon. member that the system put in place was developed by the customs brokers. We are attempting to assist so that there will be some self-regulation and self-policing in the customs brokerage industry. Therefore the risks to the public of Canada and in particular the risks to the individual customers of customs brokers will be dramatically reduced.

Government Expenditures

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, section 8 of the public accounts details an endless list of payments made to interest groups, everything from $73,000 for fashion design to $54,000 for World Food Day Association.

The government has been in power for over a year but it has made no cuts to interest group funding. Thirteen months later, $50 billion deeper in debt, and the government still has not made any announcement.

Will the President of the Treasury Board please tell the House and all Canadians why we still have not had any cuts to interest group funding, and when will he act?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, the answer I give is similar to the answer that the finance minister and the parliamentary secretary have given.

This is all part of the process leading up to the budget. In fact, it is part of the program review process. Special interest group funding, I can assure the hon. member, is under examination, as is every program and service, as we attempt to get our spending in line, to get our deficit down to 3 per cent of GDP.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, Canadian taxpayers are upset, the Reform Party is upset, even Liberal backbenchers are upset about the gross waste of taxpayers' money.

Why is the President of the Treasury Board not upset about this waste of money? Why is he not acting now rather than waiting for the budget which is several more months and several hundred million dollars later?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, while my hon. friend and the third party is talking about the matter, we are acting. The matter is fully under review. Consultations are going on with various departments on all aspects of spending, including interest group funding.

Crtc

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry. He will no doubt recall that a recent decision by the CRTC to allow for a rate increase in local telephone rates by provincial companies may result in a $72 a year increase for local subscribers.

That decision is being appealed by marketplace competitors. But it is important to understand that such a decision by a non-elected body constitutes a de facto tax imposition, especially on those who are little able to meet such costs and who

rely on these telephones for safety, for social security and social contact.

Is the minister going to do something about this, and how soon?