Debates of Feb. 24th, 1994

Employment

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to respond to the hon. member for Calgary Southwest by pointing out that one of the reasons the premier of Quebec is able to target a reduction of 1 per cent unemployment per year is that there is a federal government in Ottawa providing great assistance in job creation right across Canada and helping Quebec, Alberta, British Columbia, and every other province to reduce the number of unemployed.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the minister's reply is simply too vague, particularly on an issue of such personal importance to millions of Canadians.

In the name of those Canadians my question is: Does the minister have specific targets for reducing unemployment in 1994-95, public sector targets, private sector targets or national targets, and if he does, can he tell us what they are?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, there are two answers for the hon. member. The real target for members of the government is to put into place job creation programs, such as reducing UI premiums

that will create over 60,000 jobs; an infrastructure program that will create over 65,000 jobs; a youth corps that will create over 15,000 jobs; an apprenticeship program that will create 15,000 or 20,000 jobs. The government is in the job creation business.

If the member wants the targets I suggest he read the budget papers because the information is in the budget papers. Maybe he should learn to read before he asks questions.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the red book and the throne speech promised jobs. Yet the budget predicts that unemployment will fall from 11.2 per cent last year to 11.1 per cent this year, a drop of only one-tenth of 1 per cent.

Will the minister acknowledge that this is not good enough, that the job impacts of the budget presented on Tuesday are negligible in 1994-95 and therefore unacceptable to unemployed Canadians.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect to the hon. member I think he has been attacked by a slight case of schizophrenia.

Yesterday he was in the House of Commons in high dudgeon speaking about the need to cut government expenditures, to get all the expenditures down, which would put thousands and thousands more Canadians in the unemployment ranks. Now he is asking us how we are going to put people back to work. He cannot have it both ways.

The Budget

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance.

Last December, the Liberal government raised unemployment insurance premiums to $3.07, a tax increase of several hundred million dollars for 1994. The new Budget reverses this decision but will maintain the tax until next December. The government claims that the rate reduction will create 40,000 jobs, starting next January.

Would the minister agree that a roll-back is necessary right away, and that based on what the minister said, the premium increase, a real tax on jobs, will cost us about 40,000 jobs between now and next December?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear the hon. member agrees with the number of jobs we will create by lowering unemployment insurance premiums, after the increase we had to introduce as soon as we came to power because of the deficit inherited from the previous government. If you look at the number of jobs we will create, our roll-back is in line with our infrastructure program and our job creation program which was welcomed by everyone. It is really excellent.

Let me quote the following: "The unemployment insurance premium roll-back is a major incentive for small business. By cutting social costs you get more jobs"; this was said by John Bulloch, President of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business. "It should provide the conditions that will help the private sector create jobs. And I think that is the tenor of this budget"; this from Anne-Marie Hubert, accountant, participant at the conference in Montreal. "I think the minister has brought down a budget that goes as far as the government can go towards-"

[The Speaker]

Order. The hon. member for Laurier-Sainte-Marie.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, thank you for interrupting the minister's quotes from favourable press clippings.

It is really incredible. The minister tells us: "You agree this will create 40,000 jobs, and it certainly will, especially since this year we are going to cut 40,000". Now that is quite an achievement. Mr. Speaker, this is like the cha-cha-cha: one step forward, two steps backward. The minister admits that this year he will be cutting 40,000 jobs, and he says that next year, he will save 40,000 jobs.

Why does he not do something right away and save several hundred million dollars in the process? This measure will create unemployment, because-the minister admitted this himself-they want to create jobs because this year they are creating unemployment.

Does the minister feel his policy is responsible, yes or no?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is, of course, yes.

According to statements by the vast majority of union and business leaders, because we made it very clear that we are going to freeze spending- that is how we can do this roll-back-we are creating the kind of optimism that will create jobs. And here again, I could quote, if you do not interrupt me, Mr. Speaker, "This is the right way to go, because it is essentially a social cost, and if we can reduce the tax on jobs, this will have a positive impact on employment growth". That is one quote, but there are thousands, Mr. Speaker.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question for the Minister of Finance affects all Canadians and not just one province.

Page one of the budget plan states that the government will meet an:

-interim target of a 3 per cent deficit-to-GDP ratio by 1996-97.

If 3 per cent is the interim target, is the ultimate target to reduce the deficit to zero?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, somehow I expected that answer.

The obvious question for the minister then is when does he forecast a successful attempt in getting to zero?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we are on the road to that with this budget. It is the first important step.

Again, I would want to go through a whole bunch of citations.

[An hon. member]

No, no.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

But they are so good, Mr. Speaker.

It is very clearly our ultimate goal. It is a goal that we have set out with this budget. As we begin to approach that goal there is another goal that we intend to implement at the same time and that is reductions of taxes because that is very important to a nation which is overburdened.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Finance.

In his budget speech, the minister chose to target the middle-class and particularly middle-income seniors. He has decided to take $490 million out of their pockets over the next three years.

Does the Minister of Finance realize that he is adding unacceptably to the fiscal burden of 800,000 seniors by digging into the pockets of every senior earning over $35,000 to find an extra $560 over two years?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, 95 per cent of seniors will be entitled to all or part of the age credit. Only 5 per cent of seniors will no longer be entitled to any credit whatsoever.

All we are really doing is bringing the age credit in line with other revenue-based credits.

I might add that our budget does not affect in any way Old Age Security, the Guaranteed Income Supplement or the pension income credit.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the 800,000 people I was referring to are over and above this 5 per cent.

Why did the minister choose to target middle-income seniors rather than making sure that all corporations pay minimum tax or doing away with outrageous family trusts?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, there are two questions in one and I will answer both. As far as seniors and the budget are concerned, if I could just quote the famous Mrs. Solange Denis who was quoted in this morning's edition of Le Droit as saying: ``We must be careful not to think that we can do as we please because we are senior citizens. Seniors must do their share; the deficit is enormous and every one knows that a concerted effort is required''. Certainly, we will take the word of Mrs. Denis on this. Now, Mr. Speaker, the question was put to me-

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

One question, was it?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

No, there were two. At any rate, he is much cleverer than you are.

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question on family trusts, about what we plan to do, allow me to refer the hon member to a speech made by the Bloc Quebecois critic for finance, who said in essence that the same thing applies to family trusts, that there are no really comprehensive studies on the subject, that the Bloc Quebecois reiterates its request that a parliamentary committee be struck.

Governor General

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance, and he will happy to know he will not need reams of paper to answer it.

Last night CTV reported that the Governor General was using a Challenger jet to shuttle between Ottawa and Arizona for a total cost of $160,000. I know that we would all like to head-

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.