Debates of Feb. 24th, 1994

Governor General

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, York West, ON]

There's the wild thing. Those westerners are expensive.

[The Speaker]

Order. As a general practice questions about the Governor General are not handled in the House. Perhaps the member could somehow phrase his question so that he could elicit the information he wants without reference thereto. The hon. member for Wild Rose.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was surprised I even had to talk about Challenger jets. I heard they were for sale.

I wonder if the finance minister would agree that it is time the government started showing some restraint in this kind of spending in these tough times.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is the same for the Governor General as it is for the Prime Minister. When the Governor General and the Prime Minister travel, questions of security are decided along guidelines established by the security service of the RCMP.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I can accept that security may be important. I am not sure if it is or not. I would like to check into it more.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Jean-Robert Gauthier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

That's disrespectful of the G-G.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Probably security can be a factor. However I believe there might be better ways of doing it.

[John Manley, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Just ask General Renfrew.

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

The next question I have for the minister is: Would the finance minister be willing to take on an immediate, full scale review of pay and perks for all employees of the people of the country to put a stop to extravagant spending?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, York West, ON]

They just froze it for goodness sake.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, in the budget the Minister of Finance indicated that a review of all boards and appointments is being conducted at this time under the authority of the minister in charge, the President of the Privy Council. We are reviewing everything to make sure there will be no unnecessary spending.

In the case of the Governor General, I did not complete my answer to that. The same principle applies as to Her Majesty the Queen.

The Budget

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance. The budget speech brings us 20 years back by taking into account the spouse's income and dependant children to establish the level of UI benefits.

Does the minister not agree that it is women who will bear the brunt of the changes brought about by his budget since they will have to prove whether or not they have a spouse or dependant children?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, it is very clear that the role of women is very important in the unemployment insurance reform we are presenting, as indicated by the fact that we have substantially increased benefits for single mothers. We did away with the draconian measures imposed by the Conservative Party. When you look at the reform, it is very clear that the women's role is very important to us and that we will act accordingly.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister recognize that the enforcement of the new changes will require the establishment of a monstrous control system similar to a gang of boubous-macoutes which will harass women?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the only monster around is in the mind of the hon. member.

The fact is that the administration of this new effort to help those most in need will be based upon those who are eligible for the child tax credit, which is a basic standard form that is applicable to all Canadians.

I would like to ease the fears of the hon. member and tell her that if she has any more problems with monsters, she may want to talk to the Leader of the Opposition about that.

National Defence

[Ron MacDonald, Liberal, Dartmouth, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence.

Yesterday this House voted on establishing a joint parliamentary committee to review and revamp defence policy. On Tuesday night the Minister of Finance announced cuts to defence and the closing and downsizing of over 20 military installations.

My question to the Minister of National Defence is this. Could he inform the House as to what criteria was used in selecting the bases to be downsized and cut? Can he give this House an assurance that the actions in the budget of two nights ago will not prejudice the work of the defence review committee?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I answered a similar question in the House a few weeks ago.

We cut in such a way as to deal with the surplus capacity, the excess infrastructure, so as not to prejudice the outcome of a defence review.

I regret that many installations were deemed surplus after an exhaustive review by our officials and thorough costing was done. In fact one in the hon. member's constituency has been severely hurt and I do regret that. We are trying to work with him and the other members affected to see if mitigative measures can be put in place to help those local communities replace some of the economic activity that has been lost.

Indian Affairs

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the hon. Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

It is my understanding that the previous government and native leaders agreed not to discuss Bill C-31, a bill defining band membership as part of ongoing discussions regarding land claims and native self-government. In fact, they agreed to leave that matter to the courts for a decision so that land claims and self-government discussions could proceed more quickly.

If native leaders made this agreement with the previous government and were satisfied with it, why is the present minister dragging Bill C-31 into discussions with native leaders and bands?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, it is a different government.

We started with the premise that the inherent right of self-government exists. We look at communities, watersheds and cultural aspects. We do not say that an aboriginal person on a reserve is any different from an aboriginal person off that reserve during negotiations.

It is very sensitive. I know there is strong feeling within the bands across Canada. Part of the problem is on the return. No one knew this was coming on the return. Everybody estimated it would be about 10 per cent of those people reinstated wanting to return to the reserve. In fact, it is closer to 40 or 50 per cent and it provides tremendous pressures on the chiefs.

Notwithstanding all that, dealing with the people who legitimately belong to bands is part of the ongoing discussions. That is the policy of this government.

[Dave Chatters, Reform, Athabasca, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if that answered my question or not. Native Canadians arrive at agreements with governments and rely on governments, no matter what party is in office, to honour those agreements.

My supplementary is this. The minister has yet to clearly deny or confirm that he told members of bands in my riding that Reformers hate Indians. Will he rise in this House today and give an unequivocal yes or no. Did he so label Reformers as haters of Indians, yes or no?

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Indian Affairs, if he wishes to answer the question.

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is very important. The Reform Party of Canada has asked me several times if I at a private meeting said that the Reform Party of Canada hates Indians. As I said yesterday in this House, I do not recall making such a statement and others do not recall me making such a statement.

However, if I did or even if the Reform Party thinks I did, and I think that is important, let me state categorically to all members of this House and to all Canadians that I do not think the Reform Party of Canada hates Indians.

Notwithstanding partisanship, Mr. Speaker, the House of Commons must continue to function. All of us in this House must work together to improve the quality of life for all the First Nations of Canada.

Social Housing

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

When the Liberals were in opposition, not only did they condemn the cuts to social housing made by the Conservative government, they also pledged, if elected, to restore funding in this area.

Can the minister explain to us why the budget contains no measures to restore funding for co-operative and non-profit housing? Why is he reneging on commitments he made during the last election campaign?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank and congratulate the hon. member for keeping this issue before the House. If the hon. member has anything besides congratulations for the Minister of Finance, I think she should look at the budget and see what the Minister of Finance did.

The minister is providing $2 billion under direct financing for the purpose of social housing, $100 million is reaffirmed for the purpose of RRAP which is social housing, and savings which accrue to approximately $120 million over four years are for the purpose of social housing which has yet to be defined depending upon consultations with the various stakeholders.

I say to the hon. member and her party that they should congratulate the Minister of Finance for his commitment to social housing.