Debates of Feb. 24th, 1994

Social Housing

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Laurentides, QC]

Mr. Speaker, during the election campaign, the Minister of Finance made the following promise to groups and I quote: "There is no question that a Liberal government would see to it that funding was restored to these areas". What happened to this nice promise?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I refer the hon. member to table 7 of the budget plan which clearly spells out the commitment of the Government of Canada as it relates to social housing.

The hon. member and her party may wish to disagree as to whether the RRAP is social housing or not. We on this side of the House believe it to be social housing because it helps provide low income Canadians with necessary assistance to make improvements to their homes.

That is social housing. That is a live commitment by the Minister of Finance.

Justice

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Justice.

Three weeks ago the decisions on the Martensville child abuse case were released. There is an uproar in Saskatchewan from all those involved in this case. The people of my province are demanding an official inquiry.

Will the minister press the Saskatchewan authorities to initiate an inquiry in this case?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I should first thank the hon. member for his consideration in giving me advance notice of the question.

At least part of that case is still before the courts. Anything I say ought not to be taken as a comment on the case but I am happy to speak to the subject generally.

As the hon. member implicitly recognized in his question, the issue whether there ought to be an inquiry is a provincial matter. I have no doubt about commitment of Attorney General Robert Mitchell of Saskatchewan to the integrity of the administration of justice in his province.

I have every confidence that he will confront the decision whether to order an inquiry in accordance with appropriate factors but it really is a matter for the attorney general of that province to deal with.

[Allan Kerpan, Reform, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the Minister of Justice. The ugly reality of child abuse in our society demands a response from us as leaders.

What plans does the government have to help Canadians work toward preventing this type of horrible crime against innocent children?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Again, Mr. Speaker, without referring to the Martensville case itself, would you permit me to express to the hon. member the confidence that I have in the effectiveness and the responsiveness of the criminal justice system to deal with these hateful crimes of child sexual abuse.

The fact is they do present extraordinary challenges in terms of the police investigations, the prosecutions, and for the judges and juries who must decide them.

There have been changes in the criminal law in recent years, including bills that have made it easier for victims of alleged crimes to testify, to have attendance with parents or friends in the courtroom, and to use screens so they need not confront the alleged attacker. May I remind the hon. member as well of the steps we outlined in our platform document that we intend to take to deal with this issue, including the creation of a national register of child abusers.

I am confident in the present system. This government has plans to improve it further so that we can deal with this very difficult and hateful crime in an effective way.

Government Expenditures

[Georgette Sheridan, Liberal, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board.

There is a perception among many Canadians that government departments seek to avoid future budgetary reductions by recklessly draining their budgets at fiscal year end. Will the minister tell this House how he will implement the red book commitment to exercise unwavering discipline in controlling federal spending?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, there is indeed that perception on the part of Canadians about rushing to spend the money before the year runs out. Of course, under the Financial Administration Act it does lapse. Perhaps from time to time it means that managers will spend prematurely or money will be expended prior to when it needs to be.

To combat that we have in this current fiscal year put in place the opportunity to carry over a percentage of the budget so that spending can be done at more appropriate times beyond the year end. I am pleased to inform the hon. member and other members of this House that as of now we have made the decision to increase that amount to 5 per cent of operating budgets. That should severely curtail at least the perception and of course the

reality of that past practice so we can ensure the effective and efficient use of taxpayers' dollars

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance, but first of all, on behalf of all members of the Bloc Quebecois, I would like to express our solidarity with the people of Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean and our disappointment with the comments made by the Prime Minister earlier in this question period.

In his budget, the Minister of Finance announces a slight reduction in government expenditures of only $400 million and postpones until 1995 the real decisions on streamlining the government's administrative machinery. Thousands of statements condemn him in this regard.

Why did the Minister of Finance not act this year to implement without delay the repeated recommendations made year after year by the Auditor General to streamline government and reduce waste estimated at several billion dollars?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, regarding not only the cuts but also our plan to streamline government and to really make it much more efficient, in co-operation with the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister responsible for Public Service Renewal, we have outlined in our budget the most substantial government reform process since World War II.

[Gaston Leroux, Bloc, Richmond—Wolfe, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not agree that, by acting without delay on the government cuts recommended by the Auditor General year after year, he would show a real political will to end the waste of public funds instead of going after the unemployed, the poor and the aged?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, as we already stated in this House, we accept the great majority of the Auditor General's suggestions and we intend-we said so in the budget-to implement them this year. That is our intention.

Fisheries

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

The enabling authority for the aboriginal fishing strategy will expire this spring. As I understand it cabinet must review the program and then rule on whether to continue or terminate it.

Will the minister tell us when we can expect such a decision, whether the decision will be made in splendid isolation, or will input be sought from those affected by the program?

[Brian Tobin, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Delta for his question.

The member will know I had the great privilege and honour to be in the province of British Columbia within the last two weeks. I met with many groups while in British Columbia. With each and every group I talked to, including during an address to the Pacific Trollers Association, we had a discussion of the aboriginal fisheries strategy.

Certainly consultation is not being done, to quote the member, "in splendid isolation". May I say that I would welcome input from the member either on the floor of the House, in committee, or privately on this important subject.

The government will be seized of the matter within the next number of weeks. We will conduct the review as is appropriate. We will be glad to report our findings to the country as a whole through the auspices of the House of Commons in the appropriate way and time.

Public Service

[Nelson Riis, NDP, Kamloops, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister responsible for public works indicated that the government had demonstrated a sensitivity for seniors with the continuation of the RRAP. I agree. The Minister of Finance indicated some sensitivity to low income Canadians with special responsibilities by having a benefit differential with the UI changes.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. When the decision was made to freeze salaries of the public service across the board, and recognizing the tremendous variation from very low paid jobs to very high, why did he not show the same sensitivity to those people who work for the government? Why did he not recognize that to freeze those wages for everybody is quite different in terms of impact for somebody making $20,000 a year and somebody making $120,000 a year?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board and Minister responsible for Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, prior to the budget being brought in I consulted with employee representatives, the various union leaders, with respect to the fact that in order to get the deficit down we were going to have to make some of the cuts on the wage bill. We looked at various options. I told them that we were looking for up to a billion dollars. I got their input on this matter.

First and foremost union representatives said that they wanted to preserve jobs. That is what we took. We found that the best way to make those cuts was to extend the wage freeze and to try to preserve jobs.

We looked at a lot of other options: everything from wage rollbacks to the kinds of measures that the hon. member's leader in Ontario had taken, but those Rae days, those kinds of measures were very unpopular with the union. We did what we believed was best to preserve the jobs for our employees.

Points Of Order

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order to say that during my response to the member for Calgary Southwest I used the word schizophrenia. I would like to withdraw that remark. It was inappropriate to use it in that context.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, my point of order is with regard to citation 495 of Beauchesne's under the documents cited section.

Today the Minister of Finance cited a number of documents in his responses to questions. I was wondering if we could have the minister table those documents in respect to citation 495.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I would be delighted to accede to the request. I would not only like to table these documents but I have a pile more I would like to table as well.

Business Of The House

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as is customary at this time, I would like the Government House Leader to tell us what the business of the House will be for tomorrow and next week.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to provide the weekly business statement.

Today the House will continue with the budget debate. Tomorrow the House will proceed to second reading of Bill C-14, respecting the borrowing authority. We will continue this debate when we come back on Monday, March 7 and if it is completed before the end of the day, we will return to consideration of Bill C-7 and Bill C-5.

Tuesday, March 8 shall be an allotted day and there will be a vote on the budget subamendment at the end of the day.

On Wednesday, March 9 we will continue with the budget debate. On Thursday, March 10 we will conclude the budget debate with the votes, if any, at the end of the day on Thursday.

On Friday, March 11 we will commence the report stage of Bill C-3 respecting federal-provincial fiscal arrangements. Of course we will consult further about any other business that day.

Finally my parliamentary secretary has some motions to move on consent which I understand he will do as soon as I complete these remarks.

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I think you would find unanimous consent for the following. I move:

That, pursuant to its order of reference of February 8, 1994, concerning the modernization and restructuring of Canada's social security system, the House authorize the required personnel of the human resources development committee to travel from place to place for the purpose of preparing and holding video teleconferences of committee sittings during the week of March 6, to 12, 1994 in the following cities: Vancouver, Edmonton, Windsor, Quebec and Sydney, Nova Scotia.

I should state that I am informed the total approximate cost of the travel contemplated by this motion and authorized by this motion is $11,000.

[The Speaker]

Is there unanimous consent?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have another brief motion and I believe again there is unanimous consent. I move:

That, if a recorded division is demanded on Monday, March 7, 1994 at the conclusion of the debate on second reading of Bill C-14, an act respecting borrowing authority, such division shall be deferred until Tuesday, March 8, 1994 at 6.30 p.m.