Debates of Feb. 9th, 1994

Deficit

[Doug Peters, Liberal, Secretary of State (International Financial Institutions)]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to report that the Minister of Finance is not a standup comic and neither am I.

We are very serious about the deficit question and are very serious about the pledge in the red book to get the deficit down to 3 per cent of GDP in the third year of our mandate.

What was stated in the press was that a number of forecasters had said that it would be difficult to bring the deficit down below $40 billion this next fiscal year, 1994-95. That indeed will be difficult without changes, but as the Prime Minister said we have a budget coming up.

Cigarette Smuggling

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Yesterday the Prime Minister acknowledged that the cigarette smuggling problem is most serious in Ontario and Quebec. The commissioner of the RCMP confirmed that over 70 per cent of smuggled Canadian cigarettes pass through the three Mohawk reserves between Cornwall and Montreal.

Is the government prepared to acknowledge today to the House that the successful implementation of its action plan on smuggling will require not only a national effort, but a special and concentrated effort to re-establish the supremacy of Canadian law on those three Indian reserves?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, this is exactly what I have said for two weeks and I will repeat it. The law of Canada will apply in every part of the land.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a supplementary question.

Most of us believe that only a small number of Mohawks are actively engaged in the smuggling operations on these reserves and that the majority of the residents resent and oppose the presence of these operations.

Has the government attempted to communicate and consult with rank and file members on those reserves to enlist their support for reasserting the supremacy of Canadian laws against smuggling, against money laundering and the illegal importation and storage of arms?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I had a telephone conversation on Sunday with the chief of one of the reserves. Shortly after Question Period I am meeting with the chiefs of all three reserves. I will be seeking their co-operation to work with the RCMP to eliminate smuggling on the reserves, around the reserves and everywhere in Canada.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Calgary Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have a further supplementary question. I appreciate meetings with chiefs, but there is a difference between meeting with chiefs and rank and file members.

I am wondering whether the Prime Minister agrees that the re-establishment of democracy on these reserves is a prerequisite to re-establishing the supremacy of law. Has the government considered instituting a formal democratic process on these reserves whereby rank and file Indian people would have an opportunity to indicate by secret ballot which measures they believe would be successful in re-establishing the supremacy of Canadian law?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that the chiefs in question are democratically elected by the residents of the reserves. The people on the reserves will likely think the Reform Party leader's suggestion is a strange form of democracy if he wants the government to march in and impose his version of democracy on them.

[The Speaker]

Colleagues, I wonder if we might concentrate perhaps in this Question Period on shortening up our preambles. It would facilitate matters a great deal.

Fight Against Smuggling

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am quite willing to cut my preamble short, but I would like the Prime Minister to listen as this question is directed to him.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. The hon. member for Roberval has the floor.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, one of the components of the government's action plan to combat smuggling calls for stepped up RCMP enforcement. Scarcely a few hours after the action plan was unveiled, we learn that shots were fired in Valleyfield as an RCMP patrol moved in on what appeared to be a shipment of contraband cigarettes.

Given the danger associated with police enforcement in this area, can the Prime Minister tell us if special measures will be taken to protect the lives of police officers who will be confronting heavily armed groups?

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member seems to have changed his tune.

For weeks, he has been calling on the RCMP to intervene and now that it is doing so, he wants the force to withdraw. That is not how the RCMP operates.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have another question for the Prime Minister.

Can the Prime Minister tell us, in other words, why he is refusing to meet in person with the chiefs of native reserves, considering the high risk situation and the need for him to obtain assurances that the lives of police officers who may have to confront heavily armed smugglers will in fact be protected?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to point out to the House that the RCMP met last Friday with the three chiefs in question. They held rather lengthy and substantive talks, the outcome of which was reported that very same evening on television. The Minister of Indian Affairs is still in contact with them and today, they will have a meeting with the Solicitor General who is responsible for the RCMP. Therefore, I do not think that my presence would help matters any further.

I believe that our ministers are capable of carrying out their duties and that the Prime Minister must intervene only when he has no other choice. Right now I think that the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs and the Solicitor General are doing an excellent job.

Cigarette Taxes

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister and was inspired by Mr. Ian Craig from the riding of Scarborough-Rouge River.

As the lone opposition member from the province of Ontario, I am very concerned that the Prime Minister has negotiated a cigarette deal with the premier of Quebec at the expense of Ontario.

Yesterday the premier of Ontario, Bob Rae, stated: "All this does is put pressure on the rest of us to literally fall into line with a policy that... was declared unilaterally by the federal government and one province".

On behalf of the people of Ontario and the premier, how can the Prime Minister possibly justify creating a series of provincial dominoes of which Ontario is just the first and which has no choice but to match the tax cuts of Quebec?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I must be doing something right when I have the tobacco companies mad at me as well as the NDP in Ontario.

I am very surprised at the statement of the hon. member because Premier Rae knows the truth. On December 13 we started to discuss matters with provincial officials in Ontario and Quebec. I have spoken with Mr. Rae many times. I talked with him again on the telephone on Friday night. On Sunday he sent his officials, led by his chief of staff, Mr. Agnew. They spent Sunday with Mr. Shortliffe, people from my office, people from the police and so on. They knew all the facts, the whole package. We discussed what should be and what should not be in the package.

To go on TV last night and say that we had made a deal without talking to them I think was very cheap politics.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Ed Harper, Reform, Simcoe Centre, ON]

I have a supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. The premier of Nova Scotia also expressed his disagreement with the Prime Minister yesterday. In fact the majority of premiers are strongly opposed to this tax reduction.

Why has the Prime Minister chosen to listen to the premier of Quebec while ignoring other affected premiers?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said in the House yesterday that the person who convinced me about the reduction of the tax was the head of the RCMP of Canada, who said that if we want really to cure the problem quickly we have no choice but to take the wind out of these sails.

I have done it. To try to make it a question of Quebec and the rest of Canada is not right. The problem is in Ontario which has a premier who wants to keep his head in the sand and not face reality.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Child Care Services

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a survey conducted by the Quebec Office for the International Year of the Family as part of the Tax and the Family Forum showed that 80 per cent of Quebecers believe that the government should do more to develop child care services.

In the absence of the Minister of Finance, I will direct my question to the Prime Minister. Mr. Prime Minister, in the context of the International Year of the Family, does the government intend to make available to the provinces the financial resources required to go ahead with developing child care services?

[The Speaker]

Order. Please address your questions to the Chair if at all possible.

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, let me start by saying that we recognize the results of the survey. We also recognize that the people of Quebec have always been leaders on the issue of child care.

Having said that, in the Liberal Party's red book we stated that first and foremost we must see a three per cent growth in the economy. We want the economy to grow another three per cent before putting into place a system to triple the number of day care spaces made available every year. So, 50,000 spaces will be created in each year once the economy starts to grow at a rate of three per cent, and we will thus obtain 150,000 spaces over three years.

[Christiane Gagnon, Bloc, Québec, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the Minister of National Revenue.

As we know, some taxpayers get to deduct entertainment expenses such as business luncheons and golf games. Can the minister tell this House when the government will make the necessary tax changes to allow taxpayers, generally women, to deduct child care expenses as business expenses?