Debates of April 13th, 1994

Manpower Training

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

This morning's Toronto Star confirms that the government is about to launch its jobs plan for youth. This strategy will include an apprenticeship program for young people. But in Quebec, where the procedures are different, this program does not work and, according to the daily newspaper Le Devoir , only $2 million out of a total of $225 million will be spent on young Quebecers.

Does the Minister of Human Resources Development admit that the federal apprenticeship program cannot be adapted to Quebec's own needs and realities and will only increase the inefficiencies and overlap already hampering job training in Quebec?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, if I may be allowed one small correction, the proposals we have put forward for the employment of young people across the country were not announced in today's Toronto Star . They were announced in the red book campaign platform last October which was endorsed by something like eight or nine million Canadians, including a large number of people in Quebec. That is the real source of the youth employment program.

The member will see that the benefits of the program we hope to be able to announce very shortly will be broadly shared by all Canadians in every province and in every region.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, instead of dodging the issue, could the minister promise today to give Quebec its share of the apprenticeship program funds so that it can invest them itself according to its own needs and priorities?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it strikes me as exceedingly strange that the hon. member is building a whole set of questions upon an event that has not yet happened.

It is about as accurate as the figures used by the Leader of the Opposition yesterday when he said that there were 20,000 people still waiting to receive training in Quebec. In fact the number has been reduced to 14,000 in the last five months of this government because there has been a change in government and a change in attitude.

I would say that the questions of members opposite are about as reliable as the facts they use.

Government Expenditures

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is a real shame the Prime Minister feels that budgetary matters are irrelevant to the Canadian people.

Yesterday the Prime Minister affirmed three times that the government would be making additional expenditure reductions not presently included in the budget in order to further reduce the deficit. We on this side of the House and millions of

Canadians are simply trying to find out where these additional expenditure reductions are coming from.

Could the Prime Minister tell me what additional expenditure reductions the Minister of Transport will make in his $2.8 billion departmental budget in order to reduce spending as the Prime Minister has promised?

[John Manley, Liberal, Minister of Industry]

Mr. Speaker, I get to be Acting Minister of Transport as well today so I get another one of these questions. I frankly do not understand the idea that the Reform Party has of asking open-ended questions.

If the member has some specific suggestions about where he would like to reduce spending in the transportation sector I can assure him that my colleague, the Minister of Transport, will be happy to undertake to review his suggestions. I can give the undertaking with all assurance that his considerations will be given to the hon. member.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are just trying to determine that there will be additional cuts as the Prime Minister stated yesterday. Surely members of cabinet must have talked this matter over. I hope the minister of defence is not the only minister who is bearing the brunt of these cuts. I know he is pulling his hair out over them.

The minister would suggest that his department is not making those significant expenditure reductions so I will direct my supplementary question to the Minister of the Environment. What is that minister going to do to reduce her $737 million departmental budget in order to further reduce spending as the Prime Minister has promised?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised the member would ask that question given that when his leader responded to the government's budget the comment his leader made was that one department that should not be cut was the Department of the Environment because of its importance.

Bilingualism

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Prime Minister. During his recent visit to Regina, the Prime Minister made an ardent plea for bilingualism to support his particular vision of Canada.

The report of the Commissioner of Official Languages once again pointed to a major decline in access to federal services in French across the country and deplored the fact that French-language education was still not available in many locations in Canada.

Will the Prime Minister admit that despite all the rhetoric we have heard from the Prime Minister, especially today, the implementation of the government's policy on bilingualism has been a failure, a fantasy from the Trudeau era, and that it is false to claim, as he does, that a person can live, work and receive a decent education in French anywhere in Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, when I see people who want bilingualism everywhere in Canada but do not want it in Quebec, I see people who want a double standard.

I maintain that the French fact has made considerable progress in this country. We have 325,000 anglophones in French immersion across Canada. My colleague next to me learned French in Hamilton, Mr. Speaker. We have come a long way.

I agree that in some locations service to the public is not adequate. A committee of the House of Commons, chaired by a French Canadian from outside Quebec, will examine the problem and help the government ensure that its policy on bilingualism operates as it should. It is not perfect, but we have made considerable progress, and we intend to keep up the good work, although francophones outside Quebec are complaining that Quebec's separatist francophones are undermining their efforts to maintain the French fact outside Quebec.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, I wish the Prime Minister would read the commissioner's report, because he would see that all this progress is an illusion. We are not getting anywhere.

I want to say to the Prime Minister, who hails from Quebec and who keeps talking about his French Canadians, that he should treat them as well as English-speaking Quebecers are treated. We treat them well in Quebec. When will you start treating French Canadians as we treat English Canadians in Quebec?

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

I wonder how the Prime Minister can expect to maintain his credibility and can sing the praises of bilingualism, when in its latest budget, his government cut financial assistance to all francophone associations outside Quebec.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have a problem here. On one side we have the Reform Party that wants us to more or less get rid of bilingualism across Canada, and on the other side we have people rising in the House today with a lump in their throats, and I really appreciate that, to defend the cause of francophones outside Quebec, but as soon as they achieve their objective to separate Quebec, one million francophones will lose their language because of the irresponsible actions of these people. That is why we intend to defeat them in their quest to separate Quebec from Canada.

Government Expenditures

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister committed his government three times to cutting the budget.

We have asked the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development where he is going to cut and we have not had an answer. We have asked the Minister of Industry twice so we would have a chance to see where he would cut. We have asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs where he is going to cut and we have not had an answer. The Prime Minister has deferred to the Minister of Finance. We want to know who is in charge over there.

Will the Prime Minister please tell Canadians which ministers are going to be cutting their budgets to fulfil his commitment of yesterday? It is not only us who want to know. Canadians want to know. Investors who are buying their bonds want to know. We feel we deserve an honest and forthright answer.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have presented a budget to this House of Commons. It was voted on and it is the budget of this government.

What I said in the House of Commons is it is the task of the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance and every other minister to make sure that every expenditure in every department is looked at very carefully. When they find some opportunities for cuts they should come forward right away.

I have asked the minister responsible for the renewal of the public service to do that task with every department. Already ministers are coming forward with suggestions. There will be a lot of rationalization.

Fundamentally the budget that we presented and which was approved by this House of Commons is the base of our economic policy. We will achieve our goal. As we mentioned so clearly in the budget, in our program in the period of three years the deficit in relation to GDP will be 3 per cent. We are determined to achieve that goal.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister committed himself and his government to additional cuts beyond what was presented in the budget yesterday. We are trying to find out how much these cuts are, who is going to be cutting and where they are actually coming from.

Since he will not answer that question, will the Prime Minister please tell us how much we can expect in additional cuts beyond what was presented in the budget? His figures regarding the deficit and the cost of the debt are out to lunch because of rising interest rates through their mismanagement of government.

[Some hon. members]

Question, question.

[The Speaker]

The questions and answers sometimes tend to go on on special days. I would ask the hon. Prime Minister to answer the question which was put if he would like to.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

I will repeat the statement I made a minute ago that every minister is working to have more reductions. More reductions will be announced when they have been made. Every minister is working very hard at that.

The fundamentals of the budget have been presented to this House of Commons. They have been voted upon. It is the budget of this government.

Bilingualism

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister. Since the Official Languages Act was passed 25 years ago, we have witnessed an accelerated erosion of the number of francophones living outside Quebec. Statistics Canada tells us that the proportion of francophones outside Quebec has dropped by 40 per cent over a period of 20 years.

My question is this: Does the Prime Minister realize that the alarming assimilation rate of francophones outside Quebec is proof that Canada's bilingualism policy is a total flop?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the actual number of francophones outside Quebec has increased, and the francophone community outside that province is more dynamic than ever. That community now has universities. It seeks to protect its rights. However, it also deplores the fact that some francophones like the Parti Quebecois and Bloc Quebecois members are the ones who create the most serious problems for it.

[Pierre De Savoye, Bloc, Portneuf, QC]

Mr. Speaker, beyond the issue of costs, will the Prime Minister recognize that the mere fact that the Commissioner of Official Languages recommends eliminating bilingualism bonuses is, in itself, another proof of the failure of the bilingualism policy coast to coast?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I believe the Commissioner said that we have to look and see if these bonuses are still useful and necessary. The Leader of the Opposition said that such an exercise was necessary. I think so too, and we are going to review the situation. The fact remains, however, that considerable progress has been achieved.

For example, last month I had the pleasure of visiting the University of Moncton. This is an exclusively francophone university and some of its students are anglophones from all over Canada who go there to study in French, because it is a good institution which was set up after official bilingualism became a fact of life in Canada. The same situation exists elsewhere in the country. Progress was made but nothing is perfect. If the hon. member wants to help, he should say that it is possible for Canadians to live in French outside Quebec and to live in English in Quebec. Then he will make a positive contribution to help the French fact in our country.

[English]

Canada Pension Plan

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Currently if a proprietorship or partnership incorporates during the year Canada pension plan premiums start anew. Employees are subject to a refund of Canada pension plan premiums on filing their income tax returns. Small incorporated businesses are not eligible for such an overpayment.

Will the minister address this inequity which results in a form of indirect taxation on small and medium sized businesses as well as acts as a hindrance to business formation?