Debates of April 28th, 1994

Supply

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I endorse the reply my colleague, Mr. Lavigne, gave our friend opposite. I would like to emphasize that the crux of the problem for the people of Quebec is really inequity because from where we stand we get the impression that the government's attention with regard to the Canadian

agricultural industry is centred on the western part of the country.

I would also like to mention a few things my colleague did not have the time to mention earlier. Regarding lamb production, Quebec has been unable to keep up with Western Canada, with its livestock increasing by 8 per cent from 1981 to 1991, as compared with 33 per cent in western provinces. Based on all that has been said so far in this debate in this place, I think we have one more reason to become sovereign in Quebec, to get the legislative tools we really need for things to run smoothly in our future country.

[Jean-Paul Marchand, Bloc, Québec-Est, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as for milk production in Quebec, the question was raised-

-at least two times. Of course under the supply management system Quebec has been advantaged in terms of milk production. It is the only advantage in agriculture Quebec has had under the present system.

Because of the fact that the federal government has been inept in maintaining article XI, supply management is the thing of the past as the hon. member knows. The farmers in Quebec, organized as they are, better than any other agricultural organization in Canada, are positioned to make such that the milk production will be sold in other countries. We cannot work any more in the supply management sector, only because the federal government has not.

One other thing about inequity in terms of the expenses of the federal government is it is not as though people in Quebec are not generous people. We recognize the principle that when one province is poorer than the other we try to be generous. That is not the issue. The issue is disloyal competition.

This form of inequity which has been going on for decades in Canada has disadvantaged Quebec in a disloyal way. That is to say, in those areas where Quebec has had a marked advantage like in pork production, moneys were being used by the federal government to develop industries competitive to Quebec in other provinces.

That is not a question of simple inequity. It is disloyal competition. That has been one of the problems with the farmers in Quebec.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)]

Does the colleague of the hon. member for Québec-Est, the hon. member for Champlain, want to add anything to his colleague's comments before we move on to comments? The hon. member for Champlain has the floor.

[Réjean Lefebvre, Bloc, Champlain, QC]

Mr. Speaker, some members of this House often think that we cannot see beyond Quebec but I think we are able to include western Canada in our discussions. We must, however, point out this great inequity toward Quebec in all areas.

We do not want to sound like whiners but we have discovered so many inequities at Agriculture Canada that it must be pointed out today.

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I take this opportunity to speak to the House about the accomplishments of our government with respect to farm income and safety nets.

As a western Canadian representing a large farming community with both supply management and wheat farmers, the debate today is of particular importance. I welcome debate from members of both the Reform Party and the Bloc on these matters.

While the previous government's plan for safety nets was simply a piecemeal approach, our government looks at farm income and safety nets in a much more comprehensive perspective. In our campaign commitments, this government called for the development of a strong whole farm support.

Our approach is based on simple but effective principles. Farmers and their families need a comprehensive set of programs that will provide income security as they move to adjust and take advantage of the new international trading regime and to generate economic growth in rural communities that is badly needed in this country.

Our government wants to provide farming communities with the tools they need to succeed in the years and the century ahead. I am pleased to report to the Chair that our minister is doing an effective job in that regard.

As we all know, the system of safety nets in Canadian agriculture is a tripartite approach involving producers, provinces and the federal government. There is tremendous diversity and need out there.

We recognize there are different needs in Quebec, different needs in Atlantic Canada, different needs even within Manitoba in the northern and southern parts of the province. My hon. friend from the Reform Party for Lisgar-Marquette will attest to that, being a farmer from that area.

The approach taken by the minister is very open and transparent. Soon after the election the minister established a safety net conference for all players to air their views and concerns. This is the approach we want to take with respect to the whole farm support program. We do not want to have one separate program in Quebec, one separate program in British Columbia and one separate program in Prince Edward Island. We are looking at a

comprehensive national approach. We are meeting with Quebec leaders.

I want to refer, for example, to the GATT discussions that were raised. Our minister spoke to dairy farmers in Quebec and, if I am not mistaken, received a standing ovation. I also want to say that the Liberal government brought in supply management which benefited Quebec farmers greatly for the past 20 years. On the question of loyalty I think we have been very loyal, very representative and fair in our approach to all farmers.

We want the kind of safety nets that will benefit all the needs of our partners. Taxpayers want programs that are financially sound and transparent. Our objective, therefore, is to develop a whole farm support program which will provide equitable support for all commodities, all producers and all provinces; which will not distort based on market signals; which will not influence production decisions; and which is less vulnerable to trade actions. Certainly people in the wheat industry in western Canada know all about trade actions, particularly those invoked most recently by the U.S.

Farmers have seen tremendous safety net changes in the last five years. Some have been good, and we acknowledge the good work, but others have failed due to hasty implementation and because there was no producer acceptance or understanding. The government is committed to full consultation and agreement on an approach that works.

The accomplishments since the safety net conference clearly show that our comprehensive and consultative approach is working. This is not an easy process. People need to talk through their differences. We acknowledge again that there are differences. The parliamentary secretary acknowledged we have to sit down at the negotiating table to work out these differences in the best interests of all Canadian farmers.

The work of the committee over the next six months will be critical in shaping the industry's economic position. To seize opportunities presented by trade accords and growing international markets we need stability and confidence at home. The importance of this point has been impressed upon us particularly again in western communities because of the possible trade war with the U.S.

Stability does not interfere with our capability to be innovative and market responsive, stability that allows us to preserve our resources, stability that works with fiscal realities.

During the electoral campaign our government promised to reinstate interest free cash advances to strengthen the farm debt review process. The minister is consulting with farm groups and has asked the sector to come up with proposals. This is an important issue.

In the committee on banking, for example, we have heard from the farming industry of Quebec, Atlantic Canada and western Canada. These farmers tell us that they cannot get access to capital. Young men and women in Canada cannot buy farms, their parents' farms, because the banks are not willing to do business with them. That is why we as a federal government have stepped into the process through agencies such as the Farm Credit Corporation to open up avenues of resources to young Canadian farmers.

The agriculture and agri-food department is currently reviewing the farm debt review board program, along with other programs, to ensure they meet today's needs in the sector. Again I want to emphasize that we are consulting with the people.

Our government is comfortable with the idea that safety nets help industries stabilize income and ensure against risks the banks are not willing to take on the Canadian farming industry. However more money is not necessarily the answer. At home and abroad value added and niche markets represent big bucks for those who seize the opportunities. This is precisely what our industry is trying to do.

The GATT has created new possibilities for the Canadian farming community. I want to respond to my hon. friend's comments about the GATT. Our Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food stood in the GATT negotiations to fight for the dairy industry. I have dairy farmers in my riding who I know were pleased with the outcome. I also know that tariffication levels almost as high as 300 per cent will protect dairy farmers in Quebec and those in my riding of Provencher.

It is obvious the government has accomplished a lot since it took office last fall. When we consider all the players involved in the safety net design, the complexity and the diversity of our agricultural industry, we realize the government is living up to its commitments.

We brought everyone to the table. Our process of developing a new safety net package is on a tight schedule. We want to implement it by 1995. It will be a key item on the agenda for the next federal-provincial meeting of agriculture ministers. Our minister is planning to present it to the House soon after that.

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Provencher for his speech. I point out to him that the cash shortages, the financing problems, are severe.

If he had read the Winnipeg Free Press last night he would realize that one window manufacturing company in Winnipeg got a $370,000 interest free grant. This is the kind of money the FCC needs to help farmers solve some of their problems. I would appreciate his attention to that.

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for those comments. Although I have not read the Free Press to respond accurately to that suggestion, I just want to advise the hon. member that in both his riding of Lisgar-Marquette and my adjacent riding of Provencher the federal government has made a number of investments in terms of the farm community.

He will recall that only two or three weeks ago I had occasion to visit his riding under the PAMWI agreements. I am pleased to report that we made an investment of $3 million under a tripartite agreement, with the federal government contributing $1 million out of its agricultural program to the good people of Winkler.

In keeping with the theme of my friends in the Reform Party, the policies of the federal Government of Canada are equitable. If we give something to a window manufacturer in Winnipeg for a tax break, we certainly have given the same opportunities to the people of Winkler, the town in which my hon. friend resides.

[René Canuel, Bloc, Matapédia—Matane, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member said that efforts have been made since they came to office. Having travelled to the west and being from the east, I can say that they are two different worlds. Lands in the west are much bigger and look very different to easterners, especially to someone from the Gaspé Peninsula. Sons cannot afford to buy their fathers' lands.

In my region of Matapédia, we do not even have our own slaughterhouse; producers have to send their animals 100 or 150 kilometres away. I would like to ask the hon. member what concrete measures, not only plans to review the situation, they have taken since they came to office to help farmers' sons who want to follow in their parents' footsteps. What are you doing to help us slaughter our animals in our own communities instead of 200 or 300 kilometres away?

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his observations and questions. He referred to dairy farmers in his riding and I want to tell him that I have dairy farmers in my riding.

I also point out what I think is important for the purposes of his question. The dairy farmers in my riding are concentrated largely in French communities, primarily French speaking communities. The dairy farmers in Provencher, the southern part of my French communities, are very similar to those in his riding. The operations in 1993 are much the same. I would never suggest that the operations in my hon. friend's riding are somewhat further ahead or further behind those in mine.

I point out again that dairy farmers in Canada, including those in the hon. member's riding, have done quite well in the past 20 years under a Liberal program of supply management. Just to provide the hon. member with ongoing assurance, the government will continue to express that loyalty to the people of Quebec, to provide help for them and to stand up for the dairy farmers in Quebec.

On the second point about slaughterhouses, I am working on a similar kind of proposal with my provincial colleagues in the southeast corner of Provencher. We are anticipating that our exports in the hog and cattle industry are going to double over the next 10 years. We are looking at capitalizing on that in terms of value added.

I would ask the hon. member to have his membership convey their interest in terms of entering into secondary processing with value added to bring benefits to the community. I welcome that kind of interactive process. I can assure the hon. member we are doing everything in government to ensure that young farmers in his area and in my area have the same opportunities as their fathers and grandfathers did under a Liberal government.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciated hearing the hon. member for Provencher speak to this issue.

As he is no doubt aware, a very divisive issue in western Canada has been that of the recipient of payments under the Western Grain Transportation Act. Should those funds be paid to producers or paid to the railways as they are currently being administered? Does the hon. member favour the status quo of paying the WGTA to the railroads? Would he favour paying that transportation subsidy to producers? Or, does he have a new initiative that he would prefer to see undertaken?

[David Iftody, Liberal, Provencher, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. friend for his question. As he probably knows a payment panel has been studying the issue for some time. The Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food is awaiting the response from the panel to have a look at the proposal.

I assure him that my position is in the best interests of grain farmers in my area. If they tell me they would prefer to use the current system then I will believe them. If they tell me they want to change the system and have a direct cash payment then I will support that.

Just to provide some context, farmers even within my own riding have different views on the issue. Different farmers in close proximity to one another will have different views on what is in their best interests with respect to the payments they receive.

I assure the hon. member and the whole House that our minister, as I said in my opening comments, will study the issue in detail. We want to hear everyone's view on it. We want to do what is in the best interests of western Canadian farmers.

[The Speaker]

It being two o'clock the House will now proceed to Statements by Members pursuant to Standing Order 31.

Corporal Punishment

[Karen Kraft Sloan, Liberal, York—Simcoe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I take this opportunity to speak out against corporal punishment.

I believe corporal punishment is an inhuman form of torture that should not be accepted by civilized government. I was appalled to learn that a provincial court judge has recently spoken in favour of caning as an appropriate punishment for young offenders.

In Singapore caning involves victims being lashed on their bare buttocks with a thick bamboo rod by a martial arts expert. These victims bleed after the first lash and are scarred for life. Recent events in Singapore have drawn the world's attention to this colonial form of justice. We could not advance as a civilized nation if we were to practise archaic methods of punishment such as caning.

I strongly believe we cannot deter violence by the threat of inflicting violence against individuals.

Health Care

[Bernard Deshaies, Bloc, Abitibi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Health, who cares so much about the health of Canadians and Quebecers, as she keeps saying, in my opinion deserves the gold medal for cynicism.

How can the minister denounce provincial governments forced to reduce health services or allow extra billing when her own government has extended the freeze on transfer payments until 1995?

How can the provinces maintain the quality of health care when her government is constantly reducing its share of health-care expenditures?

When she was in opposition, the Deputy Prime Minister said that federal financing was on a slippery slope and was creating a crisis in the Canadian health care sector.

The crisis is here and the responsibility for prolonging it falls squarely on her own government.

Alberta

[Jack Ramsay, Reform, Crowfoot, AB]

Mr. Speaker, during the Easter recess I had the opportunity to meet with government officials from 10 different municipalities within my riding of Crowfoot.

Each of these Alberta municipal governments told me that it is operating in the black and has varying degrees of reserves to draw upon if necessary.

What a novel idea. Money in the bank, no interest payments, no out of control debt, no threat of bankruptcy and a credit rating which is indicative of good fiscal management and responsibility. Only in Alberta they say.

I commend the mayors and councillors of these Alberta municipalities. When asked how they managed to run a debt free operation, they shared with me their closely guarded secret. They said they never spend more than they bring in.

Why can the local governments express such responsibility in fiscal matters while the federal government has been such a disaster?

Serial Killer Board Game

[Dan McTeague, Liberal, Ontario, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the sale of killer games and cards in Canada suffered a serious setback last week when the Minister of Justice presented a bill banning them in this country for children under 18. Board games and collectable cards on mass murderers have no place in Canadian society.

These products glorify criminals and their brutal acts. Many constituents in my riding of Ontario have conveyed to me their concern and repugnance over the sale of such items to children.

I wish to commend the Minister of Justice for taking this initiative and I will be glad when the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs begins public consideration of the bill.

I also take the opportunity to congratulate the Catholic Women's League of Canada and the churches in my riding on their efforts.

Club Roma

[Walt Lastewka, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Club Roma on its

recent 33rd anniversary celebrations. Club Roma is an important Italian organization in the city of St. Catharines. As Club Roma begins its 34th year, it is launching the greatest expansion and fund raising project in its history.

The ambitious project has been aptly kicked off with the Club Roma dream house raffle. The new expansion project is evidence of the important role that Club Roma plays in the community. Many organizations in St. Catharines have benefited from the club's generosity, including every hospital in St. Catharines.

Club Roma is also an integral part of the rich multicultural heritage of St. Catharines. The club's success in the preservation and promotion of the diverse heritage of our community has contributed immensely to the city of St. Catharines and the greater Niagara region.

I extend congratulations and good wishes to the president, Angelo Mirabella, and to Club Roma for a successful campaign and a successful 1994.

Safety In The Workplace

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Canadian Labour Congress has declared today a national day of mourning for workers who have been killed or injured on the job.

The figures for workplace death and injury are frightening. Each work day four Canadians die as a result of accidents, unsafe conditions or exposure to harmful substances at work. Disabling injuries have increased 17 per cent over the past 20 years. One in four women each year is injured on the job compared with one in eighteen men. The cost of workplace death and injury amounts to $10.6 billion a year.

No one can place a value on life or the suffering of family and friends who have lost a loved one in a work related incident.

We should recognize today, April 28, as a day to pay our respect to Canadian workers who have been killed or injured on the job.

Electronic Highway

[Réal Ménard, Bloc, Hochelaga—Maisonneuve, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the electronic highway is the major technological challenge of the future. This highway will combine telephone, cable and computer technology so that consumers can have a wide range of interactive services.

Although the advisory committee was able to bring together a strong team with expertise in electronic infrastructure, we must admit that the creative artistic community was tactlessly left out. This is an unacceptable omission.

The government cannot keep outside the decision-making process the very people who produce much of the material that will be carried on the electronic highway, especially since the creative artistic community could have played an essential role with its knowledge of such issues as privacy, copyright and intellectual property.

If the minister and his government are really concerned about protecting culture, they must correct this error and leave a big place for the creative people of this country.

Dna Testing

[Randy White, Reform, Fraser Valley West, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to bring to the attention of this House a terrible injustice in my home province of British Columbia.

A 78-year old woman was raped and brutally beaten by a ruthless criminal. Although the judge conceded the DNA match was conclusive, he ruled the evidence inadmissible because it infringed on the rights of the criminal under the charter. The criminal left this poor woman naked and battered yet he is the one being shielded.

Police use breathalyser tests in drinking and driving cases and yet we deny them the right to use this important tool to put violent criminals behind bars.

DNA testing must be permitted when necessary. We have run out of patience with ineffective political parties. The rights of the victim must take priority over the rights of the criminal.

National Basketball Association

[Anna Terrana, Liberal, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the city of Vancouver and Arthur Griffiths in particular for their successful bid for a National Basketball Association franchise.

Vancouver joins an expanding and exciting league. Canadians have been eagerly anticipating this favourable decision for a long time and clearly it is much deserved. Much thanks must go to Arthur Griffiths for his dedication and outstanding commitment to realizing this goal.

The awarding of an NBA team demonstrates the significance of Vancouver, how it has grown and developed into a socially vibrant metropolis. There is a realization that Canadians have much to contribute to the sporting world. Canadians are recog-

nized as being among the most enthusiastic, passionate and committed of supporters.

The new basketball team will be sharing the yet to be completed GM Place with the Vancouver Canucks who, incidentally, will be playing the Calgary Flames tonight at the Pacific Coliseum.

I am confident the Canucks will handily even their series and I wish them and Vancouver's new basketball team the very best of luck.

Fisheries

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, in the House yesterday during Question Period the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Oceans stated that the groundfish licences of bona fide professional fishermen that had been frozen in 1991 would be returned at once. He made it clear that not all licences would be returned, only those of bona fide professional fishermen.

This is a move that will be supported by the various fishermen's associations. It is, I assure the House, most gratifying to have a Minister of Fisheries and Oceans who listens to the fishing industry and to the fishermen.

These licences are most important to the diversified, multi-licence traditional fishery and to the professional fishermen in my Carleton-Charlotte constituency.

The minister has proven that he understands and cares deeply for the traditional fishery. I would like to personally thank and congratulate the hon. minister for this most sensible and important move.

Home Loan Insurance Program

[Georgette Sheridan, Liberal, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise in the House today to speak about the federal government's first home loan insurance program.

In a surge of activity, over 33,000 homes were purchased by first time buyers in the first quarter of 1994. The high level of activity is a result of consumers taking advantage of almost ideal home buying conditions.

The home loan insurance program is good news. It will help Canadians realize their dream of purchasing a first home. As important, it will stimulate the economy. Almost 60,000 person years of direct employment have been created.

Mr. Speaker, this initiative was successful and it cost Canadian taxpayers nothing.

Kudos to the minister responsible for Canada Mortgage and Housing and to the other members of this government who so ardently supported this program.

Provincial Elections

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, at a fund raising cocktail where guests had to pay $250 each, the Minister of Foreign Affairs accused the Quebec director general of elections of not being impartial in asking the federal government to comply with the spending limits provided in Quebec's Elections Act.

By attacking the professional integrity of Mr. Pierre-F. Côté, and by showing his contempt for Quebec's election rules, the Minister of Foreign Affairs shows an arrogance typical of the Trudeau years.

It is ironic that the minister would make such comments at a fund raising cocktail. He would be better advised to implement the commitments made by the Liberal Party regarding ethics and to table legislation on the financing of political parties, based on the principles of transparency and fairness contained in the Quebec act.

Health Care

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, 30 years ago the Liberal government of Lester Pearson brought medicare to Canada. Although there were concerns expressed at that time about what the program would cost, the majority of Canadians applauded the initiative.

In the years since, Canadians, including Reformers, have come to put a high value on our health care system. It is tragic that today health care is under threat from the very same party that introduced it.

Health care is deteriorating rapidly and soon it may no longer be the envy of the world. Our huge debt and deficits and this government's refusal to update the 30-year old outdated Canada Health Act are combining to undermine and gradually destroy the system.

Canadians cherish their health care system. They demand solutions from their government instead of rhetoric that is hauled out of the archives from the 1960s.

Let us hope that in addition to the aluminum smelter museum in Shawinigan, the Prime Minister will not have to consider building a health care museum.