Debates of June 20th, 1994

Forest Industry

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Saskatoon-Clark's Crossing.

Goods And Services Tax

[Chris Axworthy, NDP, Saskatoon—Clark's Crossing, SK]

Mr. Speaker, prior to the last election the Liberals promised repeatedly that they would scrap the GST. We know this tax has hurt lower and middle income Canadians, small and medium sized businesses, and has cost hundreds of thousands of Canadians their jobs. We need a tax system which is more unfair, not more unfair, and we deserve a government which keeps its promises.

What does this new Liberalspeak mean? It means applying GST to food and prescription drugs. It wants to tax families on the bread they eat and on the prescription drugs they buy for their children. Yet it leaves the sales of stocks and bonds free of GST.

How perverse can this be? Once again the rich get a break and the middle and lower income Canadians get hit. That is Liberal tax reform.

The government should earnestly search for a more progressive system of taxation which closes loopholes for the wealthy and large profitable corporations and gives middle and lower income Canadians a break. Most of all the government should stop breaking its election promises.

The Late Constable Todd Baylis

[Gurbax Malhi, Liberal, Bramalea—Gore—Malton, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay tribute to Constable Todd Baylis, the Toronto police officer tragically killed in the line of duty last Thursday night.

Todd was a resident of my riding. The 25-year old policeman was liked by co-workers and neighbours. He was intelligent, popular and faced a bright future with his fiancee, Janice Graham. Todd was a true life hero and role model.

Constable Todd Baylis was a young man who had his life taken by the senseless, brutal action of a criminal who should never have been on the streets. He was the second officer killed in the line of duty since 1984.

On behalf of all Canadians I offer my deepest sympathy to Todd's family, fiancee and co-workers.

Canada

[Harold Culbert, Liberal, Carleton—Charlotte, NB]

Mr. Speaker, as this House nears the summer recess may I extend to you our gratitude for your generosity and understanding toward all members of this House. Your quick wit and fair attitude has been appreciated.

During this session we have heard comments on Atlantic Canada, Quebec, central Canada, western Canada, B.C. and the north. I should tell you and this House that each of these components is important to my Canada and will continue to be. My Canada has no greater province or people nor does it have any lesser province or people. It is but one Canada and one people, equal in every way.

According to a recent poll 61 per cent of Canadians approve the Chrétien government actions.

Mr. Speaker, to you and to all members of this House, have a great summer. May God bless Canada and all Canadians.

Justice

[Myron Thompson, Reform, Wild Rose, AB]

Mr. Speaker, it has been stated a number of times in the House that the justice system in Canada is working fine. These statements made by the Minister of Justice and the Solicitor General are not, I repeat are not, the same feelings of the rank and file Canadians throughout the country.

This government's efforts to being in change and make Canada safer are mediocre at the very best. This government

claims the answer to a lot of our problems is to bring in gun control because that is what Canadians want.

If this government is truly listening to what Canadians want then surely it is hearing the majority cry out for such things as consecutive sentencing, non-release of violent offenders, and the return of capital punishment. Or, is it only hearing the bleeding heart segment of our society? With the tinkering of legislation which is presently going on I would suggest the bleeding hearts are the only ones who are being heard.

As more policemen die, violent crime continues to rise and young offenders get bolder and bolder, very soon the voice of the majority will be heard. What will the minister do then?

[Translation]

The Budget

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Saturday's Globe and Mail reported that the Minister of Finance asked his colleagues to accept new spending cuts in order to counteract the effect of rising interest rates. It seems that at a meeting on the weekend, the cabinet was split on the minister's proposal, with a number of ministers preferring to wait and see before making additional spending cuts.

Does the Minister of Finance intend to table a supplementary budget in the fall to reduce government spending by at least $3 billion, in order to counteract rising interest rates and keep the deficit down to $37.2 billion as announced in his budget?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the cabinet is not split. We had a very useful meeting on the weekend. I have regular meetings with my colleagues to discuss ways to make government more effective, and I think we are seeing the results of those meetings.

As I said in this House last week and the week before, we do not intend to bring down a minibudget in the fall. As we said in the budget, we intend to present our economic forecasts in order to have a basis for consultation on the budget to be tabled next February.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I am inclined to conclude from what I read in the Globe and Mail and from the minister's reply that his proposal for additional spending cuts was defeated by his Cabinet.

I would like to ask the minister more specifically whether he would admit that he is primarily responsible for rising interest rates and whether he realizes that these increases are a direct

result of the severe judgment passed by a financial community that is dissatisfied with the spending cuts in his last budget.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, there are several reasons for the increase in interest rates. First of all, this is an international phenomenon. We are seeing this not only in Canada but elsewhere as well. Of course, Canada's level of debt does not help either.

However, if we look at the past two or three weeks, clearly the rise in interest rates is due mainly to the irresponsible statements made by Jacques Parizeau and the Leader of the Opposition.

[Lucien Bouchard, Bloc, Leader of the Opposition]

Instead of taking political cheap shots, I would urge the Minister of Finance, through you, Mr. Speaker, to behave more responsibly, and more specifically, I would ask him to answer the following question: If, as the minister claims, political uncertainty has caused the rise in interest rates we are experiencing today, then why does this increase not affect securities issued by the Government of Quebec and Hydro Quebec, and why does it affect securities issued by the federal government?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, probably because Quebec has been spoiled by a Liberal government for nine years, and not Canada.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Anyone who has any doubt as to the irresponsibility and effect of the statements by the Leader of the Official Opposition and the leader of the opposition in Quebec, only has to look to the statements of people from Nomura Securities from Japan, from the United States and from Germany. They indicate those statements are putting not only the political but the economic structure of this country in doubt.

We are going into a very difficult time. I ask the Leader of the Official Opposition and through him his colleague in Quebec to understand that hundreds of thousands of Canadian jobs are put at stake every time they make an irresponsible statement.

Goods And Services Tax

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal Party was elected on a promise to abolish the GST. In fact, this was one of the main commitments in the red book. Moreover, on May 2, the Prime Minister told this House, in

reference to the GST, and I quote: "We hate it and we will kill it". According to today's media reports, however, not only is the GST here to stay but it will be hidden in order to better extend it to basic goods and services.

After making a formal commitment to abolish the GST, how can the Minister of Finance justify the fact that his government is considering maintaining this tax in a hidden form while extending it to food, medicine and health care?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, I am told that the committee report will be presented to the House this afternoon. I am eager to read it. The member is on the finance committee and should know better than to quote newspapers before the report is even tabled in the House.

When the report is presented, we shall see-and I am very confident because the members worked very hard-whether the committee managed to replace the GST, as we promised.

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since low-income earners, the sick and the elderly will be the first victims if the GST is extended to basic foodstuffs, health care and medicine, can the finance minister explain to us, in the light of the recent unemployment insurance cutbacks for which he is primarily responsible, why his government persists in hounding the most disadvantaged members of society?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the member keeps making reference to a finance committee report which is going to be submitted to the House.

I hope at the same time the committee report is submitted that Bloc Quebecois members will be giving us their views. I hope that unlike the previous question those views will be constructive and not simply destructive.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

During the election campaign Reformers said we would cut spending, balance the budget and then get rid of the GST. The Prime Minister said he would scrap the GST. He said: "We hate it and we will kill it".

Does the Deputy Prime Minister and her government still adhere to this policy?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Yes, Mr. Speaker.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, we are going to adhere to our time schedule today with answers like that.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister admit it was irresponsible for her party to campaign on a promise of scrapping the GST when it has no plans to make the spending cuts necessary to really get rid of the GST?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the only party that has done a 360 degree turn on its position on the GST is the party to which the hon. member opposite belongs. His leader campaigned in favour of the GST. However when he read the public opinion polls, he turned around and campaigned against it.

[Jim Silye, Reform, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Speaker, 360 degrees puts us back where we started.

It is obvious the Liberal government plans to introduce the son of GST, an allegedly new tax with a new name that will be called the value added tax. I predict that if this becomes government policy, very soon Canadians will be calling it the very awful tax, just as they do in Great Britain. If the biggest change to the GST is just its name, this is a betrayal of Liberal campaign promises.

Would the Deputy Prime Minister admit that she has created a political hot potato because she has not been clear with the Canadian taxpayers and is now trying to double talk her way out of an election promise?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, the only party that has been double talking the Canadian taxpayers is the party opposite.

The Liberal Party campaigned on a promise of getting rid of the GST. From the very moment the Prime Minister made that promise, he told the Canadian people very honestly that when the GST was abolished it would have to be replaced by something. The report we are going to read this afternoon will underline the contents of various options which will be examined by cabinet and by the Prime Minister.

I can say one thing. There is one person in this House who fully intends to live up to every promise he made. He is the Prime Minister of Canada.

Indian Affairs

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to Statistics Canada figures published in the daily La Presse , Ottawa makes overpays native band councils by over $1.2 billion every year. This money is paid to over 70,000 apparently non-existent natives and represents nearly one quarter of the overall $5.5 billion budget allocated annually by Ottawa to native communities.

My question is for the Minister of Indian and Northern Affairs. Can the minister confirm this report?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I read the article in La Presse . It is a very respected paper, but a very speculative article. It was based on a 1991 Statistics Canada examination. Even in that article it will be noted that Statistics Canada was unable to get reports from 78 First Nations.

In 1993 a corporate management group was put together with the bottom line of better fiscal regimes, a better basis for this type of interplay between ministries. There have been difficulties.

As my friend knows, in the last eight or nine years there has been a tremendous population explosion. The birth rate on reserves is twice that of the non-aboriginal birth rate. With respect to the C-31 returnees, when we passed the legislation the speculation was that perhaps there would be a 10 per cent increase on reserve. In fact, it is almost 40 per cent.

Not all these things are done strictly on numbers. It is more an art form than a science. When we build a road, put in a health service or look at a school, we are looking to the future. If a band has 250 when it should have 300, or 350 when it should have 300, we are still going to go with the project. We look at the project more than the numbers.

I want to assure the hon. member this government is not in the business of giving money to non-existent, non-aboriginal people.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister not agree that the only way to determine the native population on reserves is by ensuring that Statistics Canada census takers have access to these lands?