Debates of Oct. 6th, 1995

Department Of National Defence

[The Speaker]

Please, my colleague, the question now.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Will the minister resign?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have a little problem today. From watching the hon. member I realize not many of them will be re-elected when they act like that.

The member talks like that about the Canadian Armed Forces which have been an honour to all Canadians. Those Canadians have been doing a great job in Yugoslavia for the past three and one-half years, yet a former member of the armed forces is using those kinds of words about his colleagues who were with him in the army, who have always been a great part of the Canadian strength. We have the best soldiers in the world.

Not long ago I was talking with the President of Croatia and the President and Prime Minister of Bosnia. They told me the best soldiers in the former Yugoslavia were the Canadian soldiers.

When I see a former soldier acting like the hon. member, I know those members will not be back in great numbers after the next election.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

Transfer Payments

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The federal government reallocates to the Quebec government, in the form of transfer payments, a portion of the taxes collected from Quebecers. As a result of the numerous cuts made by the federal government, the amounts handed back to Quebec are constantly being reduced, and transfer payments have become an unstable and inadequate source of funds for Quebec.

Does the Minister of Finance confirm that, since 1980, the proportion of Quebec's revenues coming from federal transfer payments, including equalization, has dropped by 28 per cent and that the situation will get progressively worse as a result of the last federal budget given that, by 1997-98, transfer payments from Ottawa will account for only 12.7 per cent of Quebec's revenues?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, again-and this is unfortunate-separatists do not have a firm grasp of figures.

At present, while receiving approximately $29 billion from Quebec, we give that province approximately $41 billion, which means a net gain of $11 billion for Quebec. What we must ask ourselves is this: Should Quebec ever achieve independence, what will the separatist movement do to bridge that gap?

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

It is a pity, Mr. Speaker, that I will have to put my question in writing because I was unable to get an answer.

Since it is becoming increasingly obvious that, within four years, Quebec will no longer receive any money from Ottawa for social program funding-I repeat, social program funding-how can the minister justify his plans to set up new structures and implement new manpower training initiatives that will increase duplication, when these structures and initiatives are to be funded from surpluses in the UI fund, to which Ottawa will no longer contribute as much as a penny?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Again, Mr. Speaker, I can only repeat the same thing. The government, the Prime Minister, the Minister of Health and myself have all stated in this House that one of the goals of the current reform is to reverse the trend, stop our reserves from shrinking and maintain a level that will allow us to set the amount to be transferred to the provinces, including Quebec.

Canada Pension Plan

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development on behalf of all Canadians.

A new poll shows that only 19 per cent of Canadians under age 50 expect to get anything out of the Canada pension plan when they retire. Their confidence in the plan has gone down since the Liberals replaced the Tories in 1993.

Does the government have any plans at all to correct the Canada pension plan problem? What will it do to assure Canadian workers and employers that the money they are contributing to this plan is not just going down the tubes?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, it is a curious question about money in the Canada pension plan going down the tube. The money goes to provide for retirement security for senior citizens. It goes to provide for a basic income benefit for disabled Canadians. It goes to provide a basic benefit for widows and their children.

The Reform Party's proposals as it puts them forward would mean a substantial reduction for disabled Canadians, a substantial reduction for widows, and a substantial reduction for 1.8 million pensioners. How can the hon. member stand up and tell us to do something to protect the system when his own party is proposing a way of slashing the program?

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the difference between the Liberals and the Reformers is that we would have a plan that would be actuarially sound. This one has never been sound. The Liberals were informed of that when they first brought in this plan. They fired the adviser who gave them that advice 30 years ago.

I ask again: What will the government do specifically to make the Canada pension plan actuarially and mathematically sound and sustainable? That is what Canadians demand.

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member well knows, we announced in the last budget that we would be presenting a paper containing a series of proposals as to how we can deal with the sustainability of the Canada pension plan. The Minister of Finance will be meeting with his counterparts later this year to talk about this. As the hon. member should know, this is not just a federal government plan but one we share with the provinces. It is a joint plan and therefore we have to make those kinds of arrangements.

Let me give the member one very quick example of the kind of measures we are taking. On July 1, I announced a series of changes to the Canada pension plan that will allow those with disabilities to go back to work so that they can have a bigger incentive to be employed and not simply draw the benefit. It once again goes to the very heart and soul of what we are trying to do in our reform which is to provide for economic security by giving people a good chance at a job.

Youth Unemployment

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development. Despite a slight dip in unemployment after ten months of zero net employment growth in Canada, we find that the unemployment rate among those under the age of 25 has again increased. Even those who manage to find work are often in an extremely precarious position. In fact, this is the lowest level of youth activity in the labour market in 20 years.

What concrete actions does the government plan to take to help young people, since the youth unemployment rate has again risen in September, from 15.7 per cent to 16.4 per cent?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased the hon. member raised that question. It does give me the opportunity to tell members of the House in case they have not heard that this morning the unemploy-

ment rate fell to 9.2 per cent which is the lowest rate since 1990. The hon. member will be particularly interested to know that in the last two months in the province of Quebec 16,000 new jobs have been created which is the highest job growth in any region of Canada.

[Antoine Dubé, Bloc, Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister is not answering my questions. I was asking about youth employment. Does the minister acknowledge that the youth employment situation has deteriorated since the Liberals came to office, with 27,000 fewer jobs for young people since November 1993. Is he prepared to acknowledge this?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's figures are not correct. The unemployment rate has gone down for young people but not sufficiently so. Looking at the figures, one of the reasons is that still far too many young people are dropping out of school far too early and therefore do not have the required skills to get a job.

That is the reason the government introduced the youth internship program. It is a partnership with the private sector to create opportunities enabling young people to move from school to work with a full transition in a partnership way. This year over 24,000 young people will be enrolled in that program.

Immigration

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the average Canadian cannot afford to travel in expensive limousines and yet the Department of Citizenship and Immigration gave over $20,000 to a Toronto limousine service to ferry immigrants around town.

My question for the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration is why?

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration promotes open government and release of information to the greatest extent possible. I am certain the information the member has come up with probably came to him through this or other measures.

We are glad to promote open government and I am happy he has this information. I will pass it on to the minister to give the member a fuller answer at a later time.

[John Williams, Reform, St. Albert, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I thought my question was why we are ferrying immigrants around town in limousines, not about open government.

To continue in the same vein, the Department of Citizenship and Immigration spent $200,000 at Big Bill's Furniture and Mattress Warehouse in Kitchener. It gave $152,000 to Zellers to buy furniture for some immigrants. Again I ask the parliamentary secretary why?

[Mary Clancy, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I again compliment the hon. member on his question.

With regard to taxi services which he clearly wants to call limousines, a car is a car. On the other hand if he wants to look at settlement services and what we do for immigrants coming to Canada, it is a program of which we are very proud. It is a program we are determined to preserve because on this side of the House we believe in the importance of immigrants in that they help build this country.

Canadian National Railways

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Transport. While the federal government has cut CN's debt by $900 million in order to make it more attractive to investors, CN has signed a $300 million contract with GM to purchase new Ontario-built locomotives.

How can the minister justify the decision to renew CN's locomotive fleet at the taxpayers' expense, when this ought to have been left for the new shareholders to pay for after privatization?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is no doubt aware that locomotives are not kept on a lot somewhere like cars are at a Ford or GM dealership. Let me assure the hon. member that the locomotives in question will be delivered to CN long after privatization.

[Paul Mercier, Bloc, Blainville—Deux-Montagnes, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I take it that the minister prefers this huge order from Ontario to be made by a crown corporation. How can the minister allow CN to add $300 million to its debt load by purchasing new locomotives at our expense when he has just injected close to one billion dollars of Canadians' tax money to reduce that same debt and to make CN more attractive to investors?

[Douglas Young, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the hon. member does not understand.

The restructuring of the debt for Canadian National has to do with the IPO that will be made available to the investment community in November of this year.

As to the order for locomotives for CN's operations in the years to come, those locomotives have not been built yet. They have not been paid for yet. They will not be delivered nor will they become a liability for CN until a number of years down the road.

As to how CN is to run its operations, obviously it needs new rolling stock. Locomotives built in London, Ontario are sold not only to CN but to CP and all around the world. Only last week we had representatives in from the Congo looking to purchase locomotives from the GM shops in London because they are the best in the world.

Employment

[Francis Leblanc, Liberal, Cape Breton Highlands—Canso, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development.

Many Canadians are worried about the economy stagnating in recent months. We have even heard some members of the official opposition talking about no net job creation since January.

Would the minister once again set the record straight on Canada's employment situation?