Debates of Nov. 30th, 1995

Indian Affairs

[Jay Hill, Reform, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I was not asking the minister whether he had seen it or heard of it. I was asking him whether his ADM is responsible for it. Does the buck stop with him and his department or not?

We believe in the equality of all Canadians but clearly this Liberal government does not. This week the Prime Minister is adding a new class of citizens by recognizing Quebec as special and giving Quebec distinct society status. Now we learn that the department of Indian affairs is considering granting premier status to Quebec native leaders.

Apparently the Liberals intend to grant distinct status to two groups so far: the Quebec separatist government and Quebec native leaders. How many more do the Liberals intend to recognize?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, a couple of weeks ago the Reform Party put out its policy on aboriginal people. We waited two years for what is now its interim policy. It was received as follows: Blaine Fable: "Earth calling Preston"; Blaine Fable: "Silly and bizarre"; Erasmus: "It's like reading something from the 1920s"; and John Edward: "This is pretty much a bunch of cheap shots from the Reform Party". These are aboriginal leaders.

The Reform Party knows nothing about equality. If it knew anything about equality, all 42 members who voted against the B.C. treaty process would have been in here voting for it.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is also for the Minister of Indian Affairs.

The document signed by Deputy Minister Jack Stagg, which all the media reported on this morning, recommends that the government pay money to the aboriginal communities in Quebec, in return for their support for the federalist side in the last referendum, and also, in the words of the deputy minister himself, to buy their silence while the federal government tables constitutional proposals to satisfy Quebec.

Since the media all reported on this document, I ask the minister if he bothered to summon this person, who is not just anybody, but the person responsible for his department's strategic directions and policies. Has he since summoned his deputy minister to find out if he did in fact write this memo?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in my former answer, I did not ask for that document and I did not see that document. If it is accurate as far as the Globe and Mail then it is a pretty silly document.

If the hon. member wants to know what my deputy minister, my ADMs or my regional directors general have to do, there is an even more significant document which is accurate and free. It is called our red book and we follow it.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I think the minister is trying to dodge the issue. His deputy minister, who is very well known, who is responsible for the department's strategic directions and policies, did in fact write a memo. I want the minister to tell me if he did summon his deputy minister and ask him for his version of events.

I am not interested in the red book. I am quite familiar with it, I studied it, and there is room for improvement on aboriginal issues. What I want to know is this: Did the minister summon his deputy minister and can he admit that he promised the aboriginal communities in Quebec that he would compensate them for their support for the federalist cause in the last referendum?

[Ron Irwin, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, our policy in Quebec is clear and apparent and I think my friend does support it.

We are working with the James Bay Cree on their issues. We are working with the province of Quebec and with the Huron which has signed a treaty with the province of Quebec. We have made offers to the Attikamek-Montagnais in the north of Saint-Laurent of $400 million with the Quebec government. He says to work with the Quebec government. We are working with the Attikamek-Montagnais, the Innu. We are working with all of them.

Our policy is our red book. Everybody who works for our department is supposed to follow that red book.

Sri Lanka

[Bill Graham, Liberal, Rosedale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the continuing conflict in Sri Lanka is a matter of great concern to many Canadians, including many in my riding of Rosedale who have come here from Sri Lanka.

Would the Secretary of State for Asia-Pacific inform the House of Canada's position on the Government of Sri Lanka's military operations in the north which have displaced so many innocent civilians?

[Raymond Chan, Liberal, Secretary of State (Asia-Pacific)]

Mr. Speaker, we are all very concerned about the continued conflict in Sri Lanka. Recently when I accompanied the Prime Minister and my colleague, the Secretary of State for Latin America, at the heads of the Commonwealth meetings in New Zealand, I personally sought out the Sri Lankan foreign affairs minister to express our concern to him.

Canada does not believe there can be a military solution to the conflict. We urge all parties, including the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, to negotiate a lasting political settlement. The LTTE must accept that there is nothing to be gained by continued guerrilla warfare and acts of sabotage. Also, the Sri Lankan government should recognize that only a negotiated political settlement will bring peace to Sri Lanka.

The Deficit

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, the provinces are leading the federal government again. Yesterday Ontario announced a balanced budget plan. Nine out of 10 provinces have a balanced budget plan in place.

My question is for the Minister of Finance. When will this government announce to Canadians a balanced budget plan?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, it is not enough to simply have a balanced budget plan which stretches years out. What is important is to have in place a process that will enable the government and any government to consistently hit its targets, to maintain a steady downward tract both in the deficit and the GDP ratio and that is what we have done.

That is why for the first time in over a decade a Canadian government was able to stand up and say that it had beat its deficit targets.

[Ray Speaker, Reform, Lethbridge]

Mr. Speaker, if the targets are easy to reach, anybody can do it. The real litmus test of financial or fiscal responsibility is a balanced budget plan and a budget plan that can be reached. In Canada there are only two governments that do not have a plan: the separatists in Quebec and the Liberal government here in Ottawa.

Is the finance minister, according to the answer that was just given, telling Canadians that when he tables his budget in the spring there still will not be a balanced budget plan?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, we have been very consistent. We have said that we are going to operate on the basis of rolling two-year targets and that is what we are going to continue to do.

The hon. member talks about last year's budget target being an easy target. If that was true, then the allegation also would be true. It was a very difficult target to hit. In three years we will have taken the deficit from 6 per cent of GDP down to 3 per cent.

As far as proof that it was a very difficult target I would only cite the leader of the Reform Party and the hon. member who last year stood up and said that we would never hit that target, that the sky was falling and we had to have countless mini-budgets. We did not have mini-budgets. We beat the target that member said we could never hit.

Telefilm Canada

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the heritage minister.

The committee in charge of reviewing the mandate of the National Film Board, Telefilm Canada and the CBC has postponed until January 15 the tabling of the report that was supposed to be released today.

The Quebec motion picture and television production industry is very disturbed by rumours of Telefilm Canada being dismantled. In a letter to the Prime Minister, spokespersons for this industry have condemned the government's plans to abolish Telefilm.

How can the minister reconcile delaying the tabling of the Juneau report until January 15 when budgetary decisions have to be made now about three major Canadian cultural institutions, namely the National Film Board, Telefilm and the CBC?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that I would have liked to have received this report today, but that is not the case. I have spoken to the chairman of the mandate committee, and have pointed out to him that I fully intend to have the January 15 deadline met. At that time, I will release the report.

As for the relationship between mandates and budgetary decisions, it is clear that we will need to work faster, and we will.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, does the minister intend to grant the private industry and audiovisual industry's request, which is a real cry of alarm, that Telefilm and the resources allocated to the motion picture and television production industry be maintained?

[Michel Dupuy, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, our colleague mentioned earlier that the government was planning to dismantle Telefilm Canada. I would like to know where she got that information. How could we plan to do so, when we have not yet received the report, which, as she just said, will be tabled on January 15? Decisions will be made at that time.

The Economy

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, for the second time this year the OECD has proven that the Liberal economic and social policies are failing.

The Liberals have driven growth down to 2.3 per cent from 4.2 per cent. They have increased taxes and killed jobs. They have driven more people on to welfare and closed more businesses.

If the Minister of Human Resources Development really cared about the 1.2 million people he has left unemployed, would he not create jobs by rolling payroll taxes back by more than the wooden nickel he is?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member's question reminds me of that very felicitous phrase used by her colleague from Calgary when referring to the Minister of Health. It seems that like dogs the members of the Reform have a fascination with trees.

In response to the question, the hon. member knows that tomorrow we will be presenting an employment insurance package. I think the hon. member will find there will be a number of initiatives in that package that are designed to help Canadians get back to work and, in particular, to provide incentives for the business community to create jobs.

[Jan Brown, Reform, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do have a sense of humour, so I will let that tree comment pass.

The Minister of Human Resources Development is a tax junkie. He gets his fix by funnelling billions of dollars from UI into wasteful job creation schemes and into deficit reductions. However there is hope for recovery. The minister can register today in a 12-step program to break his tax addiction.

Will the minister commit to breaking his tax addiction by rolling payroll taxes back by more than a wooden nickel?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's sense of humour. It is always nice to discover that somebody in this House has one. It is a refreshing change.

However, the hon. member should check with statements made by the finance critic for the Reform Party. He was complaining about all the problems related to the deficit. Now the hon. member wants us to take away even more money, which would add to the

deficit. It would seem to me that sooner or later the Reform Party should get its act together.

Status Of Women

[Beth Phinney, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it has been 25 years since the Royal Commission on the Status of Women outlined its concern with regard to women's economic status, specifically, various aspects of their paid and unpaid work.

Could the Secretary of State for the Status of Women please inform the House what the government is doing to improve the economic status for women?

[Sheila Finestone, Liberal, Secretary of State (Multiculturalism) (Status of Women)]

Mr. Speaker, while it is true that the royal commission looked at the economic status of women and related that as well to ensuring that violence against women would be reduced, we also brought in the whole question of employment equity and the right of women with equal competence and merit to have access to fair jobs and to break the glass ceiling, as it is called.

At the same time, we have recognized that the unpaid work of women and men is of great value to our society. It was an issue we brought to the meetings in Beijing. The issue of unpaid work and its value is now part of the platform for action out of Beijing. Canada is the first country in the world that will measure both the work and the value of unpaid work to our society as we push and promote women's economic access to independence in our country.

Immigration

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration. Anatoli Delets and his family came to Canada from the former Soviet Union in 1992. Their refugee claim has been turned down and this family, despite having integrated well into Quebec society, will soon be deported to Moldavia. There is every reason to believe that they will be subject to the same persecution as they were before they left that country, for Mrs. Delets is Jewish and is not considered a Moldavian under that country's laws.

How can the minister explain that, instead of exercising his discretionary powers to allow the Delets to become permanent residents, he has allowed employees of his department to arrest Mr. Delets and place him in a detention centre awaiting deportation, which will take place as soon as his wife is released from hospital?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, the people the member refers to had full due process under what can argued to be the best refugee determination system in the world. They have also received a humanitarian and compassionate review from my department as well.

There was also the possibility of trying to facilitate in response to the family, rather than going back to Russia perhaps for a facilitation into Israel.

It is absolutely unfair for this member, given the statements that have come from that side of the House with respect to immigrants and the role they can play in society, to suggest that Canada has been unfair to them.

[Osvaldo Nunez, Bloc, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Delets is ill in hospital. Where is Canada's humanitarian policy? Does the minister not believe that it is his duty to show compassion when there is every reason to believe that the Delets family faces incalculable risks, since the Moldavian embassy in Washington has notified them that they are no longer welcome in that country?