House of Commons Hansard #278 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was finance.

Topics

10 a.m.

The Speaker

The House leader of the Reform Party has given notice that he is going to raise a point of order today. It is my intention to hear that point of order.

In view of the fact that it is a very important point of order and I do not want it interrupted, I have decided to go through Routine Proceedings and then I will hear the point of order of the hon. member.

This is the last sitting day of Parliament. I thought we could get Routine Proceedings out of the way and then listen uninterrupted to the point of order of the member and interventions any other members would like to make. That is how I intend to proceed.

Government Response To PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

December 14th, 1995 / 10 a.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Peter Milliken LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to five petitions.

TransportationRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Acadie—Bathurst New Brunswick

Liberal

Douglas Young LiberalMinister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, Canada must have a modern, integrated and affordable national transportation system. One that emphasizes safety and reliability. One that is efficient. And one that supports strong, viable companies in all modes.

Our government has been working hard to provide Canadians with the transportation system they need to compete into the 21st century.

We have made tremendous progress in the air sector, based on our commitment to benefit the travelling public. The dispute between Canada's major air carriers was resolved. New regulations will ensure that the computer reservation system industry is more consumer friendly, and new financial fitness testing for start-up carriers will ensure that passengers are not stranded by companies that do not deliver.

This government has introduced a national airports policy that gives local communities a greater say in airport operations.

We now have an agreement in principle with Nav Canada, a not for profit corporation, to commercialize Canada's air navigation system. Transfer of the system will mean $1.5 billion to the federal treasury and the elimination of a $200-million-a-year subsidy.

We have unveiled an international air transportation policy that establishes clear criteria for second-carrier designations on international air routes-a policy that also makes sure Canadian carriers use the routes they are allotted. We have signed a long awaited "Open Skies" agreement with the United States. Seventy-five new services have already begun thanks to Open Skies. Another 20 are at the planning stage.

We have taken steps to modernize Canada's rail sector. The privatization of Canadian National saw the largest and most successful initial public offering of shares in this country's history. We have introduced in Parliament the Canada Transportation Act -legislation that will make it easier for Canadian transportation companies to move people and goods safely, efficiently and affordably, and which will allow the short-line industry to grow.

The government has moved away from broad subsidies for transportation. More than $700 million in subsidy payments under the Western Grain Transportation Act and the Atlantic region freight assistance program have been eliminated entirely.

Today I am proud to introduce on behalf of the government a comprehensive strategy for Canadian transportation, a new national marine policy. Canada's marine system has to become more responsive to the needs of its users. It must become more efficient and less of a financial burden on the Canadian taxpayer.

The government intends to ensure that Canada has a modern, efficient and safe marine transportation system into the 21st

century. Therefore, the Canada Marine Act will be introduced this spring. This act will consolidate and modernize the marine regulatory regime, cut red tape and allow for faster, more efficient business decisions.

Canada's public ports will be commercialized using consistent criteria applied equitably coast to coast to coast. Ports that are important to domestic and international trade will make up the national ports system. They will be transferred to financially self-sufficient Canada port authorities made up of representatives nominated by port users and governments.

Community organizations and private interests will be given the responsibility for operating regional and local ports. Provincial governments and municipal authorities may become involved if they wish. The maintenance of designated remote ports will continue to be ensured by the Government of Canada. The government will pursue commercialization of the operations of the Great Lakes and St. Lawrence Seaway system.

Whether through the establishment of a new not-for-profit corporation or through changes within the current management structure, it is the intention to make the seaway a more efficient and effective transportation system. The government will move aggressively to full cost recovery.

The government will commercialize the delivery of ferry services. Marine Atlantic will be directed to substantially reduce its costs and increase efficiency. The corporation will explore new vessel management and procurement practices. It will take steps to streamline services and match the operating season of its vessels to realistic traffic demand.

The government will review the subsidies it provides to private ferry operators. I want to emphasize that the Government of Canada will respect all of its constitutional obligations in this area. Remote and essential ferry services will be maintained.

It is the intention to modernize the marine pilotage system. The four pilotage authorities have been directed to prepare detailed cost reduction plans. Those plans are expected to be on my desk by the end of this month. Pilotage authorities will be required to fulfil their mandate of self-sufficiency. Cost recovery for pilotage services will be 100 per cent in every region of the country where they operate. Pilotage tariffs must reflect market conditions and appropriate costs.

The four pilotage authorities have been directed to review the designation of compulsory pilotage areas, the process for licensing pilots and granting pilotage authorities and certificates, the criteria under which vessels may be exempted from pilotage requirements and the feasibility of new training courses to prepare more candidates for their pilot licence or pilotage certificate exam. Revisions to the Pilotage Act will be made once these reviews and consultations have been completed.

All of these changes will have an impact on federal employees. The government will make every effort to ensure that employees are treated fairly and equitably.

The national marine policy will ensure that Canada has the modern marine transportation system it needs to compete worldwide.

It will bring commercial discipline and business principles to the management of Canada's ports, the Great Lakes-St. Lawrence Seaway system, as well as to ferry and pilotage services. It will maintain the federal government's constitutional obligations-as well as its commitment to marine safety and environmental protection.

It will help to ensure that shippers have access to efficient and affordable marine transportation. That those who use our marine system pay a greater share of the costs. Services levels will reflect realistic demands. Users who will pay will have more say.

And for those honourable members who have been calling for greater local control, we have responded through the changes outlined today.

I want to thank all those who participated in helping us put this policy together. In particular, I want to thank the honourable member for Hamilton West, Mr. Keyes, and the members of the standing committee on transport, he chairs. The standing committee's cross-Canada consultations earlier this year, as well as its comprehensive report on the marine sector, proved invaluable to the development of the national marine policy.

Canadians depend on marine transportation. The measures I have outlined today will help ensure a safe, efficient, affordable and integrated marine system that meets the needs of Canadians as we move into the 21st century, where there will be the toughest competition in the marketplace Canadians have ever had to face.

TransportationRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to rise in the House today to comment on the marine policy tabled by the Minister of Transport.

The minister started his speech with a retrospective of his initiatives during the past two years. In many cases, they did not quite come off. The principle was fine, and it was to provide Canadians and Quebecers with a transportation system that would be less costly and more responsive to user needs. However, the way the minister proceeded with these reforms was so awkward that it caused major problems within the transportation system, especially in the case of regional transportation.

Thanks to its national airports policy, the federal government was able to offload the cost of operating regional airports on the communities that depend on those airports. The minister went ahead with his policy without even considering the impact it would have on the cost and availability of regional transportation.

The minister is about to commercialize the air traffic control system by turning it over to a non profit company that is not even representative of all users, since small carriers and regional carriers will not be represented on the board of NAVCANADA.

I strongly urge the minister to take all necessary steps to protect the interests of small carriers during this privatization exercise. These carriers provide transportation to remote areas that have already paid a very high price for the minister's reforms.

If we consider the international route allocation policy put in place by the minister, it is biased in favour of Canadian Airlines International, which has been given privileged access to booming Asian markets. Air Canada has obtained very limited access to Asian markets. It has no fifth freedom rights and a very reduced flight schedule.

Canadian, however, has gained unlimited access to Air Canada's main foreign market, the United States. And now the minister's policy is sabotaging the development of Montreal's airports by refusing to let Air Canada operate a Montreal-Rome service. The fact that Canadian International has withdrawn its operations from Mirabel must be seen as an indication that the minister's policy for international route allocation has failed.

The Canada Transportation Act is seriously deficient in several respects. It contains no incentives for developing short-line railways. If we want to preserve Canada's railway network, it is essential that short-line railways be able to take over the operation of branch lines from the big railway companies.

When the House reconvenes in February, the Bloc Quebecois will propose several major amendments to this bill, and we hope the minister will have the common sense to support them.

As vice-chairman of the Standing Committee on Transport, I had an opportunity to take part in the proceedings of this committee and of the sub-committee chaired by my colleague for Thunder Bay-Nipigon on the development of a national marine policy. I must say I was surprised and gratified to see that in developing his marine policy, the minister was strongly influenced by the minority report of the Bloc Quebecois.

In fact, unlike the government members on the committee who only wanted to privatize ports that were in the red, Bloc Quebecois members favoured commercializing all port facilities, whether they were profitable or not. I therefore welcome the minister's plans in this respect. However, I do wish that in this connection, he would show more concern for the regions that he did when commercializing the airports.

I am also most pleased to learn that the minister has not followed up on the recommendation of the government members of the transport committee to repeal the Pilotage Act. In their minority report, the Bloc members of that committee were against repealing the act, pointing out that the problems between the pilots' associations and the shipowners could be solved through minor amendments to the legislation. The minister seems to share our view, but we shall keep a close eye on the amendments he plans to make to the Pilotage Act.

We had supported the commercialization of the St. Lawrence seaway, and are not surprised to find that in the minister's policy. If done intelligently, I believe this will bring renewed life to that important waterway. I hope the minister will make an effort to involve those who work on the Seaway in that process.

In conclusion, I am pleased to see several of the Bloc Quebecois minority report in the minister's policy. My impression at this time is that the minister is on the right track for providing Quebec and Canada with a forward-looking maritime policy. We must, however, wait and see how he plans to transform his policy into actions.

In light of past experiences, the official opposition will need to remain watchful, and we intend to examine every last detail of the minister's measures very carefully. It is already not a good sign that the government is looking at cost recovery for icebreaking in the St.Lawrence. This is unacceptable, for it would mean that Quebec shipowners would be saddled with close to half of all the charges the government intends to levy for coast guard services.

It would be unfair to make shipowners pay for a service that is in the public interest and ensures the safety of those living along the waterway, not to mention the very negative impact this measure would have on the ability of St. Lawrence ports to compete directly with U.S. ports, as they must.

So you see, Mr. Speaker, the important thing is the way we go about it.

TransportationRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

Reform

Jim Gouk Reform Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is the Christmas season and a time of goodwill. Therefore I would like to start by wishing the minister a good holiday season. I trust he is still able to hoist some holiday cheer after the strain he put on his arm by patting himself so vigorously on the back.

It has been an interesting time for me as Reform's national transport critic. Each major policy the minister has introduced has had my support in concept. As I explained recently to a New Brunswick reporter, the minister has very Reform like concepts; now if we could only convince him to adopt more Reform like implementation.

The minister spoke of many policies, including the national airport policy. Although I support its concept, this policy has a tendency to skim profits and leave several of the airport authorities struggling for future financial viability.

On the commercialization of air navigation services, I support this move but there are still many unanswered questions about the Hughes contract and how it will impact, with its deleted features and increased costs, on the final agreement and on the financial viability of NavCanada in the future.

On the international air transportation policy, given the initial backroom dealing of the government, I am glad to see it has come up with a clear and reasonable policy at last.

The government went ahead with the much requested open skies policy while stifling Pearson airport with its unwarranted political decision to cancel a contract that would have enabled Toronto to compete with the best for the new hub concepts. As it is, over $5 billion has been spent at airports within one hour's flight of Toronto to enable them to compete with new hub business while Pearson languishes with decrepit, outdated terminals I and II. The contract would have seen $350 million already spent at Pearson with much more in progress. The government has spent nothing, has announced no alternative construction plans and has no money. The final cost to the Canadian taxpayer will likely run well over a billion dollars.

On the privatization of CN, again the concept was good but the implementation was terrible. The new private company is legislated to remain headquartered forever in one location whether that is best for the company or not. I asked for an amendment that would have seen the shares of that company first offered to Canadians before opening sales to the rest of the world. The Liberals refused. The results were that although there was an unsatisfied demand for the shares here in Canada, 40 per cent were sold exclusively to foreign purchasers.

On the Canada Transportation Act, committee handling of this has been better than it was with Bill C-89. A more open approach to Reform amendments has seen the bill made more reasonable. There is hope for a good bill if Parliament accepts the voice of the majority of witnesses who asked for the removal of clause 27(2). Surely the government will consider this. The alternative is to tell all the witnesses their testimony was meaningless and there is no point in appearing before committees again in the future.

Now the minister is ready to proceed with the Canada marine act. Once again I am in favour of the concept but I worry about the detail and the implementation. I put the minister on notice of the following points which differ from those recommended by the Liberal majority in the Standing Committee on Transport.

New port authorities must be better protected from government cash grabs than they have been in the past, and some of the airport authorities are being faced with that now. The minister said representatives will be nominated by port users and government. The committee recommendation refers to the government appointing at least the majority. That is unacceptable. Government representation, yes; control, no.

The committee is also recommending a ports capital assistance program. The main emphasis it placed on this was to bring non-commercial ports to upgrade them to become self-sufficient. The idea has some merit as long as it is not used to subsidize a port to compete directly with an unsubsidized Canadian port.

The minister's suggested policy regarding cost recovery of ice breaking services is unacceptable. User pay is a great Reform concept, once again accepted by the minister but potentially implemented incorrectly. Users should pay only for what they use, use only what they need and pay for it at a commercially fair and reasonable rate.

The minister talks about revising the marine pilot act, as did the committee. As he does this he should keep in mind that all regions have a problem with the pilotage and he should not create national policy to deal with regional problems. I support the concept of the privatization of Marine Atlantic. I would like the minister to consider the concept of the in-depth study of cross-departmental financial impacts.

The province of Nova Scotia has recently completed an impact study on the Bluenose ferry. It would save something over $4 million by closing down but the impact in other departments and other jurisdictions would cost as much as $15 million. These things must be harmonized together.

Marine Atlantic proposes to close the ferry in the winter but that study suggests this would create a net financial loss to the taxpayers. These new concepts must be considered.

I find I have got on fairly well with the minister. Amid all the talks of cabinet shuffles, I hope the Prime Minister sees fit to leave him where he is. I would hate to have to break in a new one now.

Interparliamentary DelegationsRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34, I have the honour to present to the House, in both official languages, the report by the Canadian section of the Assemblée internationale des parlementaires de langue française and the financial report on the meetings of the 21st ordinary session of the AIPLF, held in Ottawa and Quebec City respectively from July 7 to 12, 1995.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Raymond Bonin Liberal Nickel Belt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 11th report of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development.

This report deals with the subject of co-management of natural resources with aboriginal peoples. The report discusses the evolution of co-management regimes and recommends the delegation of authority to regulate small scale resource development to local co-management boards.

It is the committee's hope this report can further co-operation between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people and contribute to the sustainable use of our natural resources.

I thank my colleagues from all parties who participated in this study. Through their determined efforts they were able to come to a consensus and produce a unanimous report.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests the government table its comprehensive response within 150 days.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Gar Knutson Liberal Elgin—Norfolk, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 13th report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Legal Affairs.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, October 23, 1995, your committee has considered Bill C-106, an act respecting the Law Commission of Canada, and your committee has agreed to report it with amendments.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Jim Peterson Liberal Willowdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the 23rd report of the finance committee. This report deals with Bill C-100.

I congratulate the minister responsible for financial institutions who implemented a process of consultation with industry, with consumers and with all members of Parliament. These groups through the finance committee came together and crafted in partnership this bill.

I also thank staff members of the House of Commons who worked so assiduously with our committee and who have been such an asset to us. I thank all members of Parliament on the finance committee who worked so diligently with us and wish them all a happy holiday season.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Karen Kraft Sloan Liberal York—Simcoe, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development entitled "Keeping a Promise: Towards a Sustainable Budget".

The report examines the subject of fiscal disincentives to sound environmental practice.

The committee, in addition to being provided with information of a general nature on the tax grant and subsidy system currently in place including the progress to date of the base line data collection process, focused on four sectors: agriculture, mining, energy, and transportation. Based on the evidence, there are compelling reasons for launching a base line study as was promised in "Creating Opportunity" for the economic, social and environmental benefit of all Canadians.

I would like to thank the witnesses and the members.

Committees Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Gordon Kirkby Liberal Prince Albert—Churchill River, SK

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present in both official languages the eighth report of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources entitled "Streamlining Environmental Regulation for Mining: An Interim Report".

I wish to express my sincere thanks to all the members of the committee who co-operated in coming to a unanimous report. I will stress that this is an interim report. There is more to come but today I thank you, Mr. Speaker, and the members of the committee for working together to make this possible.

Criminal CodeRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-118, an act to amend the Criminal Code and to amend certain other acts.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Criminal CodeRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Etobicoke Centre Ontario

Liberal

Allan Rock LiberalMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-119, an act to amend the Criminal Code (child prostitution, criminal harassment and female genital mutilation).

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Yukon Quartz Mining ActRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Sault Ste. Marie Ontario

Liberal

Ron Irwin LiberalMinister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-120, an act to amend the Yukon Quartz Mining Act and the Yukon Placer Mining Act.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Parliament Of Canada ActRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Reform

Elwin Hermanson Reform Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-366, an act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Canada Elections Act (confidence votes).

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to introduce this bill which you described as an act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act and the Canada Elections Act.

As members recall, two or three days ago I withdrew a bill which was the incorrect draft. I had initially described that bill when I introduced it. The only additional comments I will make is that this bill will also bring more certainty as to the timing of byelection and general election dates.

In light of the vacancy in Labrador, the way this bill would affect that vacancy is it would prevent a byelection from being held in the dead of winter. It would also prevent the people from Labrador from not being represented for an undue length of time. It would also have prevented the past byelections that were held over the Christmas and New Year's season from happening.

This bill brings more certainty to the election process. It is not a violation of our Constitution. I believe it is a very good piece of legislation. I invite members over the Christmas season to look at it and if they could propose amendments that would make it an even better bill, I would certainly be willing to have them talk to me about it.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed.)

Black CanadiansRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Etobicoke—Lakeshore Ontario

Liberal

Jean Augustine LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Prime Minister

Mr. Speaker, with the unanimous consent of the House, I move, seconded by the hon. member for Québec, the hon. member for Kootenay East, and the hon. member for Burnaby-Kingsway:

That this House take note of the important contribution of black Canadians to the settlement, growth and development of Canada, the diversity of the black community in Canada and its importance to the history of this country, and recognize February as black history month.

Black CanadiansRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

The Speaker

The hon. parliamentary secretary had the unanimous consent of the House to move the motion. Is it agreed?

Black CanadiansRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to.)

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Kingston and the Islands Ontario

Liberal

Peter Milliken LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, you will find a disposition on the part of the House in respect of today's debate on government Motion No. 28 to proceed as follows. There will be three 30-minute speeches by the first three speakers. Following that, there will be 20-minute speeches without questions or comments for the remainder of the debate. The whips could divide those as they choose under Standing Order 43.

There is a disposition on the part of the House to proceed that way in respect of today's debate.

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

The Speaker

Does the hon. parliamentary secretary have permission for this proposal?

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Milliken Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Mr. Speaker, two other small matters that are agreed to. First, when we reach Private Members' Business today at 5.30, there is a disposition on the part of the House to deal with Bill S-12 now on the Order Paper at all stages. I am giving notice so there is a clear understanding that would happen before the normal private members' business for the day. I anticipate a very short passage for Bill S-12.

At the end of private members' hour, there is a disposition to deal with a matter on the adjournment. It is a late show item left over from last night which should take six minutes.

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Bloc

Yvan Loubier Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

The bill arising from omnibus bill 4?

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Milliken Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

It is Bill S-12, a private bill. After the time allotted for private members' business, we will have an adjournment debate at which time the hon. member for Bourassa and the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration or his parliamentary secretary will be speaking. The whole thing will take six minutes, and we can add this time to the debate on government Motion No. 28.

Business Of The HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:35 a.m.

The Speaker

Does the parliamentary secretary have consent?