House of Commons Hansard #152 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was billion.

Topics

Sydney Tar PondsOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Hamilton East Ontario

Liberal

Sheila Copps LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Environment

Mr. Speaker, when the tar ponds operating permit was established in 1988 it was established according to available environmental guidelines at that time.

When in 1992 the Canadian Council of Ministers of the Environment improved the guidelines to ensure that they were more stringent with respect to PCB incineration, the project in Nova Scotia in question was voluntarily submitted to those guidelines.

As I stated yesterday and in my previous answer, we are working with the Government of Nova Scotia to ensure that not only the incineration be below the acceptable guidelines but also that the regulations generally be changed to reflect that.

SugarOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Prime Minister.

Will the Prime Minister reassure this House that he will raise the matter of further American restrictions of Canadian sugar and sugar containing products that are endangering our sugar industry when he meets with President Clinton later this month? Will the Prime Minister stand up for Canadians whose jobs are at risk because of American protectionism?

SugarOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

The answer is oui.

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Human Resources Development and has to do with Mr. Hope's report on the rail negotiations which the minister has now had for about a week.

When will the minister be releasing the report? Many railway workers have been waiting a long time for this matter to be resolved and they want to see this matter resolved. When will he be releasing the report and when will he tell the Minister of Transport to stop acting like the minister for the CNR or the CPR and tell the Minister of Transport to keep his big nose out of these negotiations?

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh.

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Reform

Ray Speaker Reform Lethbridge, AB

I am sure the hon. member was using a figure of speech. I hope we will not resort to these types of remarks. The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, I have always been a great admirer of the distinguished profile of my colleague, the Minister of Transport, and so I certainly have no intention of undertaking any effort to probe his proboscis.

On the more serious matter, I would like to report that I have received a copy of commissioner Hope's report. Because of the significance and impact we are studying it very carefully. We also will have to submit it for translation so that it is available in both official languages. We would want to depose the report as quickly as possible so that we can get on with the negotiations and discussions.

I say to my hon. friend that there is nothing to stop the parties coming to an agreement without that report if they want to really get down to the brass tacks and negotiate a new deal for the railways.

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:50 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I do not want to follow up on the question of the minister's profile but I do want to follow up on the question I asked the minister responsible for labour about what he is going to do about the fact that the Minister of Transport is taking a position in these negotiations identical to that of the companies.

This is not what the Minister of Transport is supposed to do. It is what the minister of labour should object to if he wants to protect the integrity of that process.

What will the Minister of Human Resources Development be telling his colleague in this respect?

Rail TransportOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Winnipeg South Centre Manitoba

Liberal

Lloyd Axworthy LiberalMinister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, the responsibility of the minister of labour is to ensure that the Canada Labour Code is properly honoured and recognized by both management and labour in the conduct of their affairs and in their discussions, which we are doing dutifully and properly, and that where there are disputes, we are also here to represent the public interest and to make sure that we can resolve these disputes on the basis which will ensure that all Canadians are served well.

ChechnyaOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Liberal

Jane Stewart Liberal Brant, ON

Mr. Speaker, Canadians were extremely happy to hear this morning that a ceasefire has been reached in the terrible war in Chechnya. Like most Canadians, I have been horrified by the brutal violence and bloodshed that have marked this war.

Can the Minister of Foreign Affairs inform the House what the ceasefire will mean for the efforts to establish a lasting peace in this area of the world?

ChechnyaOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Papineau—Saint-Michel Québec

Liberal

André Ouellet LiberalMinister of Foreign Affairs

Mr. Speaker, quite clearly we are happy to see that at last there is a ceasefire. We hope that this will be the prelude to intensive negotiations that will lead to lasting piece in that part of Russia.

Clearly, as the hon. member has indicated, we are concerned for the civilians who have been terribly affected by this war. We are in consultation with the international Red Cross in order to assist civilians who have been affected.

Patronage AppointmentsOral Question Period

February 14th, 1995 / 2:55 p.m.

Reform

Jim Hart Reform Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence and Veterans Affairs.

Mr. René Cormier, a member of the Canadian Pension Commission, has been on paid leave, not sick leave, not for a few weeks or a few months, but for over one year. Will the minister please explain to Canadians suffering under crippling tax burdens how this situation involving a political appointee at $100,000 a year can be justified?

Patronage AppointmentsOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Cardigan P.E.I.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay LiberalSecretary of State (Veterans)

Mr. Speaker, I can assure my hon. colleagues that it is before the courts and will be settled shortly.

Patronage AppointmentsOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Reform

Jim Hart Reform Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC

Mr. Speaker, I hope we do not need a fourth video for someone to take action.

My supplemental question is for the President of the Treasury Board. The minister expects Canadians to take him seriously when he talks of reforms to the public service while political patronage appointments like Mr. Cormier are paid for over a year at the taxpayers' expense without doing a thing.

Would it not be a good idea to establish exactly how many redundant political appointments are out there and show some leadership by example by cutting redundant patronage positions before asking productive public servants to take cuts?

Patronage AppointmentsOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Saint-Maurice Québec

Liberal

Jean Chrétien LiberalPrime Minister

Mr. Speaker, I want to have the last word today.

In response to the hon. member, we have made a review of all order in council appointments. Hundreds of have been cut since this government has taken charge. We are reviewing all of these appointments. We have reduced them and we intend to continue to do so.

In the case of this individual, as the Minister of State for Veterans said, it is a problem which is before the courts at the moment.

Overlap And DuplicationOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Bellehumeur Bloc Berthier—Montcalm, QC

Mr. Speaker, last week, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs said that most of the $5.9 million budget for its department's task force on Canadian unity had been used to finance studies on duplication and overlap between federal and provincial programs.

Considering the numerous questions asked by the Official Opposition regarding waste due to duplication and overlap, will

the minister agree to release the studies conducted by its department and table them in the House?

Overlap And DuplicationOral Question Period

2:55 p.m.

Hull—Aylmer Québec

Liberal

Marcel Massé LiberalPresident of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada

Mr. Speaker, we currently have action plans with eight provinces and two territories to reduce duplication. Over the last year, we signed 64 agreements with the provinces and the territories and they are all public. Consequently, we have no problem with letting the opposition marvel at such achievements.

By September 12, 1994, eight agreements had been concluded with Quebec. Of course, there have not been any since, but we continue to use money to reduce duplication and overlap. We do not talk about it: We do it.

Presence In The GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

The Speaker

I wish to draw the attention of hon. members to the presence in the gallery of the hon. Wayne Adams, Minister of Supply and Services of the province of Nova Scotia.

With him today is the hon. Ross Bragg, Minister responsible for Economic Development and Tourism of the province of Nova Scotia.

Presence In The GalleryOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear.

Points Of OrderOral Question Period

3 p.m.

NDP

Audrey McLaughlin NDP Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I should like to clarify a statement I made earlier today. When I referred to a very strong and respect Indian leader in Yukon I had meant to say Elijah Smith and inadvertently said the late Elijah Harper.

I certainly express my regrets to the hon. member for Churchill for having made that error. I am reminded of Shakespeare's statement that we come to praise Caesar, not to bury him. I express my regrets to the member.

Ways And MeansOral Question Period

3 p.m.

Scarborough East Ontario

Liberal

Doug Peters LiberalSecretary of State (International Financial Institutions)

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 83(1), I wish to table a notice of a ways and means motion to amend the Income Tax Act, and I ask that an order of the day be designated for consideration of the motion.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB

Mr. Speaker, 12 years ago a Boeing 767 flying from Montreal to Edmonton nearly crashed over northwestern Ontario. This near tragedy was not a result of a mechanical failure or a powerful prairie thunderstorm. It simply ran out of gas.

In its statement the airline placed the blame for this emergency on human error involved in converting the fuel measurement from imperial to metric amounts. It was only the skill of the pilot that manoeuvred the drifting aircraft to a safe landing. At 30,000 feet refuelling is no longer an option. The fate of the passengers lay in the hands of leadership. Interestingly enough the airline was Air Canada.

Canada as a nation is like that aircraft. Our ship of state is in trouble, not because of some internal mechanical malfunction but because of human error.

The world has changed to a new competitive economy. The rules have changed but our ground crew still does not know how to make the conversion. After two decades of human error air Canada is drifting. Our financial reserves are empty and Canadians, the passengers, are deeply concerned about their future and safety. The only problem is that at this moment the incompetent ground crew is still flying the aeroplane.

Each one of us knows that personal security is vitally important to Canadians. Ours is a compassionate society. We all want to know that our friends, families, neighbours and ourselves will be taken care of during times of need. Yet somehow after 30 years of ballooning government spending on social programs we have been left with less security rather than more. Why is this so?

Let me save the suspense by answering my own question. Canadians feel more insecure now than ever before because government overspending has robbed them of their personal security. The welfare state has failed. Just as communism and socialism crumbled after a 75-year experiment, our own 25-year social digression has come to a painful conclusion.

Canadians are beginning to realize that the welfare state is not working and that it is time to re-evaluate the government's role in providing social security to individuals. The greatest single danger to the personal security of Canadians comes from the

financial unsustainability of social programs currently monopolized by government. They are unsustainable if we have to borrow money to pay for them, which is exactly what successive governments have done for the last 25 years.

Thanks to such irresponsible management the federal debt is now over $530 billion and provincial and municipal governments owe another $190 billion. Instead of providing peace of mind these programs and their associated debt have left Canadians feeling anxious about this, about their and their families' futures.

Why have Canada's debt and deficit left Canadians feeling anxious and insecure about their futures? The reason Canadians feel such concern is that after being deceived for so long, led to believe that government would look after them and take care of them from cradle to grave, they have come to realize they are now relying on a bankrupt state. They have come to realize the interest payments on the debt have become so large and are growing so fast that it is beginning to crowd out the social programs that have protected them for nearly a generation.

The greatest risks to Canada's social fabric are the threats of annual deficits and a rising national debt which over the past 30 years has crowded out many legitimate expenditures of governments.

We have borrowed so much over the last 25 years and accumulated so much debt that all the money we borrow this year will be used to pay interest on our federal debt. When it comes to government there are no free lunches. In fact compound interest make the ultimate cost of what government is borrowing very costly indeed; in fact more costly than if we had paid for them outright, if we had paid our own way to begin with.

Effectively interest payments are crowding out programs. Money that could be used to help Canadians is simply not available to us because we have to pay our interest obligations. Interest payment on the debt is now the single largest expenditure item for many governments, depleting resources for public investments in health, education and infrastructure. As we continue to borrow, our debt increases as does the interest, leaving even less money for essential programs.

Where does all this debt and compound interest leave Canadians? It leaves us paying more taxes while at the same time receiving fewer services. Canada's debt burden is both eating up a substantial portion of current tax dollars and reducing the ability of all levels of government to provide essential social services. Can we understand now why Canadians are concerned?

How did we get into this mess? Whose human error or ignorance while working with ground support has brought us to a place of flying empty at 30,000 feet? Who could the passengers of our drifting air Canada hold responsible for bringing them into such a dangerous predicament?

It just so happens the ground support staff has been promoted to captain and crew. Is that not a comforting thought? The very ones who got us into this mess are now in control. Meanwhile, Captain Chrétien sails serenely on committing ordinary Canadians to a perpetual stream of more interest. Ironically it was the Trudeau Liberal government of which Mr. Chrétien was a member and a one-time finance minister-

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Order. I remind the House that during any intervention while referring to any member of the government cabinet we refer to the position or the office. In this case it is the right hon. Prime Minister or the Minister of Finance as opposed to the individual's name.

SupplyGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

Reform

Diane Ablonczy Reform Calgary North, AB

Mr. Speaker, ironically it was the Trudeau Liberal government of which the present Prime Minister was a member and a one-time finance minister that first sold Canadians on the myth that big government could solve most of our problems. What they never made clear was that they would pay for this by heavy taxation and borrowing from future generations.

For more than a quarter of a century Canadians have been encouraged to increasingly rely on government and they have done just that. The disastrous consequences of these Liberal policies are now threatening the well-being of society.

As a co-pilot and former ground support staffer, the failure of the human resources minister to reform social programs to make them target better and cost less is a failure that all Canadians will pay for in the form of higher taxes.

We need to fight the debt and deficit not to hurt people but to help them, to free them from the chains of insecurity, the links of which are made of debt and interest payments. The welfare state is sinking under the weight of its own waste, inefficiency and disabling dependency.

Fundamental reform and renewal of our social security framework are absolutely imperative if we are to have any hope of sustaining our existing high quality of life, providing Canadian youth with opportunities rather than simply an unmanageable financial obligation, and continuing to help the poor and needy among us.

The government intends to continue to borrow billions of dollars every year. Extra interest must then be paid on each year's borrowings. Each extra dollar in interest is a dollar taken out of our economy, a dollar that could have been used to expand a business, take advantage of trade opportunities or hire an unemployed Canadian.

Let us imagine what Canadians could have done with the over $40 billion we had to pay out of our pockets in interest last year alone. Let us imagine the health care it would have paid for or

the poor whose basic needs could have been met. Let us imagine the education and training that $40 billion could have provided or the help to our seniors who live in poverty.

The government should act now before interest drains our social security further and further every year, get a grip on its spending, find more effective ways to deliver the services we require, and let us get on with the job of building a secure society for ourselves and our children.