House of Commons Hansard #215 of the 35th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was vehicles.

Topics

Canadian Wheat BoardOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Regina—Wascana Saskatchewan

Liberal

Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Mr. Speaker, I presume the question relates to the discussion which has been ongoing in western Canada for some time about the appropriate jurisdiction of the Canadian Wheat Board and the issue that some have referred to as dual marketing or other types of marketing options.

As I indicated in reply to an earlier question with respect to organic crops, it is important for farmers and all of the stakeholders in the Canadian grains industry to have the opportunity to examine the issue of their preferred marketing options and marketing systems in a fully informed, fully comprehensive and rational manner.

I undertook some time ago to provide a forum within which that dialogue could take place. As I said in response to the previous question, that forum will be forthcoming very shortly.

Canadian Wheat BoardOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Reform

Jake Hoeppner Reform Lisgar—Marquette, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is not just about dual marketing or whatever system. It is about mismanagement.

It is reported today that the Canadian Wheat Board is hauling barley to be shipped to Japan by rail from Thunder Bay to California at a cost of $82 Canadian a ton. This is $9 a ton more than the farmer gets for it initially, plus they have to pay the freight to Thunder Bay.

When will the minister start acting like a minister of agriculture and look after the concerns of western farmers?

Canadian Wheat BoardOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Regina—Wascana Saskatchewan

Liberal

Ralph Goodale LiberalMinister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member had been following closely the developments with respect to barley sales and marketing over the course of the last number of weeks and months, he would have known that the Canadian Wheat Board has had considerable challenges before it in enticing the right kind of barley into the system to meet the sales opportunities we do have.

The board is obviously, in the circumstances referred to by the hon. gentleman, going to some extraordinary lengths to make sure that Canada meets the marketing opportunities it has before it. The wheat board would not be engaging in that pattern of marketing unless it was convinced it was in the best interest of farmers in making money for farmers.

TradeOral Question Period

June 9th, 1995 / 11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Barry Campbell Liberal St. Paul's, ON

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

Both the Prime Minister and the Minister for International Trade have spoken recently about the need to strengthen economic ties between North America and Europe.

Would the Minister for International Trade please bring the House up to date on the status of this initiative?

TradeOral Question Period

11:55 a.m.

Etobicoke North Ontario

Liberal

Roy MacLaren LiberalMinister for International Trade

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister some months ago raised the question of closer economic ties between Europe and North America, including the possibility of an eventual free trade agreement. He did so because on this side of the House we recognize that in the post cold war period, the era of the cold war having past, the security emphasis is no longer so central to our

relationship and should be further underpinned by closer economic ties.

In addition, we are a government that recognizes the possibilities of going beyond the commitments we made in the World Trade Organization to reduce trade barriers. We believe that initiative could be embodied in a freer trade agreement with Europe, as we have already committed to over a longer period with Asia Pacific and the western hemisphere.

ImmigrationOral Question Period

Noon

Reform

Art Hanger Reform Calgary Northeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, it was reported yesterday that the minister of immigration is considering granting minister's permits to up to 17,000 refugees who cannot be given permanent residency in Canada. They cannot get permanent residency because they came to Canada with no identity documents and we have no idea who they are or what crimes they may have committed. We do know that most came from a country that was ripped apart by bloody civil war and terrible violent crime.

Will the minister promise to protect Canadians by not granting residency to one single individual if we do not know the full background and complete history of the person?

ImmigrationOral Question Period

Noon

York West Ontario

Liberal

Sergio Marchi LiberalMinister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, this issue is under active consideration. There is a concern that a number of individuals have accepted refugee status from the Immigration and Refugee Board. On their application for landing, according to law, they clearly have to demonstrate documentation.

A number of individuals are in this catch-22 situation. They come from countries where there is not only no government but no valid documentation to obtain. It is not an easy black or white situation. The government and the department are seriously looking at this file to try to come up with a solution which will clearly protect the Canadian community and also try to benefit individuals who have been accepted as refugees and want to become members of the Canadian family.

Art BankOral Question Period

Noon

Bloc

Suzanne Tremblay Bloc Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Following the last budget, the minister announced cuts to various cultural organizations, including the Canada Council. On March 1, the Canada Council itself announced the closing of the Art Bank. That decision was strongly denounced by several organizations in Quebec and in Canada, including Quebec's association of visual arts artists.

Given that the Canada Council did not first consult visual arts stakeholders, what action will the minister take to force it to reconsider a decision which was made in stealth and seemingly in a hurry?

Art BankOral Question Period

Noon

Laval West Québec

Liberal

Michel Dupuy LiberalMinister of Canadian Heritage

Mr. Speaker, the Art Bank is the exclusive responsibility of the Canada Council. It is up to that organization to decide what it wants to do with the bank. However, I would be very pleased if arrangements can be made with the private sector and other interested parties to ensure the survival of the bank.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

Noon

Windsor West Ontario

Liberal

Herb Gray LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 27(1), I move:

That, commencing on June 12, 1995 and concluding on June 23, 1995, on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays the House shall continue to sit until 11.30 p.m. and, on Fridays until 5 p.m., for the purpose of considering Government Orders, provided that proceedings pursuant to Standing Order 38 shall, when applicable, be taken up between 11.30 p.m. and 12 a.m.

Mr. Speaker, this motion is a normal proposal at this time of year. The standing orders anticipate that there will usually be a backlog of business before the House in June. Therefore, as part of what might be called a trade off in the rules which provide for an automatic summer adjournment beginning on June 23, there is a provision for an extension of sitting hours during the two weeks prior to that date, the intention being that the additional time be used to complete business that the public interest requires.

When the House resumed the session last September, there were five government bills on the Order Paper and seven in committee. Fifty-two more government bills have been introduced since that time. We have passed 34 of the bills and have made progress on 20 more, but we are now at that point of the parliamentary calendar when the rules I mentioned were designed to come into effect to facilitate a special effort to help complete the legislative agenda.

I should like to outline for the House the business the government would like to see done by June 23, which I repeat is the date of adjournment for the summer period specified by the rules.

It is our intention to seek completion of all remaining stages of Bill C-68, the firearms bill; Bill C-41, the sentencing legislation; Bill C-85, the parliamentary retiring allowances

bill; and Bill C-72, dealing with the defence of criminal intoxication.

We also will give similarly high priority to the completion of the debate on the motion for a special joint committee of the House and Senate to consider an update of a code of conduct for parliamentarians, that is, both members of Parliament and senators.

We also would consider it a high priority to deal with, if necessary, any messages from the Senate concerning Bill C-22 regarding Pearson airport and Bill C-69 concerning electoral boundaries.

There are a number of other bills to which it would be very much in the public interest for the House to give third reading before we adjourn on June 23. Some of these are bills which have an impact on the fiscal position of the government or on economic development for the country. These include: Bill C-70, amending the Income Tax Act; Bill C-82, regarding the Royal Canadian Mint; Bill C-86, concerning the Canadian Dairy Commission; Bill C-88, regarding the removal of internal trade barriers; Bill C-89, the CNR commercialization legislation; Bill C-91, regarding the business development bank; Bill C-92, regarding the Canadian Wheat Board; and Bill C-94, regarding the fuel additive MMT.

There is also an international commitment which Canada has for quick passage of Bill C-87 regarding chemical weapons.

In addition, there are a number of bills that have been before the House for some time which ought to have their report stage and third reading completed so they can be moved on to the Senate very soon. I am speaking about Bill C-45, to update our parole and corrections system; Bill C-52, reorganizing the Department of Public Works and Government Services; Bill C-54, concerning administration of the old age security and Canada pension plan systems; and Bill C-65, to reorganize or eliminate certain government agencies.

We would also like to send to the appropriate parliamentary committee for consideration before second reading two rather complicated bills, Bill C-62 regarding regulatory reform and Bill C-84 also concerning regulations.

This is a rather heavy legislative agenda. It is for this reason that we are proposing extensive additional sitting hours for the next two weeks, that is until June 23, the normal date of adjournment for the summer provided for to come into place automatically under the rules.

Our proposal is for the House to sit until 11.30 p.m. with an additional half hour for the adjournment debate Monday through Thursday, and until 5 p.m. on Friday. We have opted for later hours than in the past because of the heavy agenda, but we are prepared to be flexible on a day to day basis.

To conclude, I want to say accordingly it is our hope to be able to work with the opposition in the detailed scheduling of the business I have outlined with a view to serving the public interest, the interests of all Canadians. Therefore we seek the co-operation of all members of this House. I make special reference to the opposition parties in this effort.

I urge the House to support this motion. It is very much in the public interest that this motion be adopted and the legislative agenda I have outlined be completed.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:10 p.m.

Reform

Jim Abbott Reform Kootenay East, BC

Mr. Speaker, by way of comment I might draw to the solicitor general's attention the fact that I have just made a list of the number of items he has given to this House. If my addition is correct it is 22 items. Unless I am mistaken there are only nine working days in which we are supposed to be putting the 22 items through.

He speaks in grandiose terms about serving the public interest. Truly in this House of Commons as members of Parliament we come here to serve the best interests of the people of Canada. I have to ask the solicitor general, how does it possibly serve the public interest when he comes to this House two weeks before the time when he wants to end this particular session, two weeks, nine working days, and gives the House 22 items? To any reasonable minded Canadian reading Hansard or watching this debate on television, does it not give the appearance that this government is treating the House of Commons like a rubber stamp?

Coming forward with 22 items to be dealt with in nine days in my judgment is irresponsible. Would the solicitor general care to comment on that?

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Herb Gray Liberal Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, if my hon. friend would look at the list of bills I have mentioned, they are almost all bills that have already had extensive debate in this House and extensive consideration in committee. With respect to most of them we are only asking the House to move on the final stages of debate, report stage and third reading.

Why would the hon. member want to hold up for months more Bill C-45, to update our parole and corrections system? I thought that would be something the Reform Party would want to see in effect. Why is it backing down on something like this? This is the kind of thing we want to make progress on. We are providing extensive additional hours of debate.

There are some measures that we are simply asking to be the subject of motions and referred to committee for more detailed study. Almost without exception we are talking about measures that have already had very extensive debate in this House and in committee. We are only asking that the final stages of debate, report stage and third reading, be proceeded with. We have extensive additional hours, which we hope all members of the House will be willing to use to complete these stages.

That is the answer to my hon. friend's question. Again, I hope we will have his and his party's co-operation in making progress on these bills in the overall public interest.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the House leader. The Reform Party is alleging this list was provided to it just now in an effort to adjourn the House, according to what the member says is the House leader's wish, on June 23.

Is it not true that opposition parties have been consulted about the agenda on a weekly basis and that the list provided today or something close to it was submitted to the opposition many times before? Is it not also true that the rule provides that we can start using this mechanism of extending hours only next Monday? Finally, is it not also true that when we tried to extend hours in the past, very often the same people have refused to extend the hours when we wanted to complete the particular bill that day?

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:15 p.m.

Liberal

Herb Gray Liberal Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, we ordinarily do not discuss before the House consultations we have with other parties outside the House with respect to the business of the House. Under the circumstances, I can only agree with what the hon. member has said.

We have shared this list or one very similar to it with opposition parties, not today in my speech for the first time but a number of days ago. We have sought co-operation-I point especially to the Reform Party-on working out the schedule to get this set of measures completed.

The attitude of the Reform Party speaks for itself as to the degree of co-operation it has offered. I would not like to say the degree of co-operation it has offered can be characterized by the word zilch because I am not sure the word zilch is parliamentary; if it is not, I will withdraw it. If it is all right I will leave it on the record and everybody will know what I mean.

It is quite correct that under the rules we could not move this motion for extended hours until today. There have been other occasions, I have been reminded by the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, when efforts have been made to extend hours on individual measures, and opposition members, especially Reform members, have always blocked that. They could easily have had additional time to consider some of these measures individually in the past, and I am informed they blocked efforts to do this.

The hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell has raised some interesting points. I hope my comments have shed some light on these matters.

I further add that contrary to what was suggested by the leader of the Reform Party in some quite unwarranted remarks I saw reported in the press this morning, the date of June 23 is the date for the adjournment of the House for a summer break, which comes into place automatically under the rules of this House and has been part of the rules for some time. This should be borne in mind in assessing measures being taken to facilitate the business of the House in the days leading up to June 23.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:15 p.m.

Reform

Jack Ramsay Reform Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, when Bill C-68 came before this House everyone knew it was a very contentious bill. Yet all members were denied the opportunity to express the concerns of their constituents on that very extensive bill.

Then the bill was rushed into committee and a deadline was set for the committee hearings. I did not object to that. I was only concerned that we were able to get the necessary witnesses before the committee in order to consider their testimony. Then we were rushed into clause by clause on this committee.

I ask the solicitor general why that we are in such a rush to move such a huge bill through the House in such a hurry when it is not going to become mandatory until 2003. What is the rush? Why could we not at least allow that bill to be set over until this fall, when everyone would have an opportunity to examine the large number of amendments that will be tabled before this House on that bill?

I understand that there are well over 100 amendments. Yet time allocation is being imposed. Why is Bill C-68, many portions of which will not become mandatory for eight years, being looked at with such urgency? Why could we not relieve the demands upon the government, upon this House, and upon the members by simply allowing that bill to be moved and taken up when we resume sitting in the fall? I do not understand that. Would the solicitor general care to comment?

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

Herb Gray Liberal Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I should remind the hon. member that Bill C-68, the bill to which he refers, was debated for days and days in this House. It was then studied for weeks and weeks in committee.

The hon. member speaks of 100 amendments. Most of them are his party's amendments. I can ask why the amendments of his party were not proposed in the parliamentary committee, which is the normal time and place for amendments. Is the purpose of the hon. member at this time to use the device of proposing amendments simply to engage in what amounts to a filibuster? That is a question the majority of Canadians, who want this legislation, can validly ask the Reform Party, although the majority of Canadians who support this legislation already know the answer.

The hon. member should be aware that in our parliamentary system the other place still has to consider this measure. That is its right and duty under our Constitution. If the hon. member does not want to see this bill and its implementation delayed

even longer than the date provided for in the statute, and if he wants to have adequate time for its orderly and fair implementation, then rather than urging that there be further delay until the fall for the consideration of this bill in this House of Commons, he will be applauding our efforts to have it voted on before June 23.

In my view, this is a fair and reasonable step to make sure that the bill is not only law but is adopted and implemented in a fair and reasonable way to serve the overall public interest when it comes to protecting Canadians from improper and unlawful use of firearms, which the majority of Canadians indicate over and over again in public opinion polls that they want from this Parliament.

I am surprised that my hon. friend, interested as he says his party is in listening to people, refuses to listen to them on this important issue.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Kilger)

Colleagues, the period for questions and comments has expired.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:20 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to speak on behalf of the official opposition on the motion to extend the sitting hours in the House of Commons for the next two weeks.

I would first like to clarify a few points concerning our party's position regarding extending the hours of the House of Commons.

In the past, the Bloc Quebecois has never objected, far from it, to extended sittings in the House of Commons, because it wanted to ensure that the parliamentary machine ran in a calm, democratic and efficient way. Each time it was proposed to extend the House's sitting hours, we have always replied "count us in".

For example, during the last debate on the railway conflict, our members came to the House in great numbers over the week-end, Saturday and Sunday, which was quite exceptional-apparently these hours of sitting were unprecedented-to discuss the measure proposed by the government, whereas our colleagues of other political stripes were less diligent in this regard.

The same thing will apply this time, but do not think that the Bloc Quebecois will support the government's motion lightheartedly. In fact, the sore point in this case is the timing of the government's decision to impose extended hours on the House. First of all, we must ask ourselves why the federal government waited until now, just before the session adjourns, to extend the hours of sitting in the House.

Why did the government not extend the hours in a more balanced manner, in the weeks preceding the usual end of the Parliamentary session? There are several possible explanations, but the most plausible is that the government has again been laid low by two ills that have dogged it since it was elected, and by which, it would seem, it continues to be dogged. They are amateurism and improvisation.

The amateurism is nothing new. As one example among many, we had the federal government calling an emergency debate with less than 24 hours' notice to discuss whether or not the peacekeepers should remain in the former Yugoslavia, just as their mandate was about to expire. Then, we were treated to a technical presentation by the Department of National Defence and the Department of Foreign Affairs only two hours before debate began. As they say, incredible but true.

And yet, more recently, this same government had to be pushed to hold an emergency debate on whether our troops should remain in the former Yugoslavia, following the dramatic and tragic events that took place in that country not so long ago. Amateurism and improvisation still characterize the actions of this government now, for if it truly wanted to see its legislative menu passed before the summer, it should have known, it should have seen that at the rate things were proceeding, it was going to be virtually impossible to complete all business before the present session was adjourned.

With all the resources at its disposal, the federal government should have foreseen that, in the present context, the House was going to have to extend the hours sooner or later. Although all the signs were there, the government preferred to stick its head in the sand, which has led to the present situation in which we must rush through a number of important bills. Unfortunately for the people of Quebec and Canadians in general, the proposed extension of the hours of sitting until late at night from Monday until Thursday will make it more difficult to follow the proceedings of the House of Commons on television.

Similarly, the extremely heavy legislative agenda the government wants to ram through over the coming weeks could well compromise significantly the quality of debate in this House. The normal democratic process will thus be negatively affected. I mentioned earlier that a number of reasons could underlie the government's decision to extend the hours of work of the House of Commons beyond the usual times.

I have just pointed out that the most plausible reason is the amateurish and improvisational approach of the government, which prevents it from planning its legislative agenda. However, I would like to come back to the point that, by extending the hours of work of the House beyond the normal times set out in the Standing Orders, the federal government will use the opportunity to push through major legislation that will hit Quebec's interests hard.

In this regard, and unfortunately for Quebec, the federal government has already used its majority in the House to have a number of bills passed, which have hurt Quebec's interests significantly. I refer to Bill C-76, among others, which concerns the budget provisions for the 1995-96 fiscal year and which implemented the provisions on the reduction in transfer payments to the provinces.

Perhaps you will also permit me to say a few words on this bill, which is now before the Senate, in view of the extent of the damage it is causing to Quebec interests.

Bill C-76 is nothing less than the implementation of the latest disastrous decisions in the federal government's most recent budget. This is the budget in which, need I remind you, the government made the unacceptable decision to transfer $7 billion of its own deficit to the provinces. You will agree with me, Mr. Speaker, that $7 billion will likely make a substantial hole in the provinces' budget.

Unable to properly manage the money of taxpayers in Quebec and Canada, this minor league government, through Bill C-76, is shirking its responsibilities by transferring to the provinces $7 billion out of its deficit.

It goes without saying that Quebec will receive its share of this poisoned gift, which will directly affect its own public finances in the years to come. However, unlike the federal government, the Quebec government has already indicated in its last budget that it did not intend to offload its own deficit onto the municipalities. In doing so, Quebec has shown that it can take its responsibilities in public finance management, despite the blow it just took from the federal government.

The federal government will merge into a single program, called the Canadian social transfer, two of the three transfer payments to the provinces, namely the Canada assistance plan and established programs financing. In 1996-97, after merging these two programs, Ottawa will cut $2.5 billion from transfer payments to the provinces.

In the following fiscal year, the federal government will cut by $4.5 billion the Canada social transfer to the provinces. These unfortunate actions by the federal government will translate into a $650 million shortfall for Quebec in 1996-97. And, in 1997-98, this shortfall could go up to $1.9 billion.

In fact, Bill C-76 helps us understand better the federal government's talk about cost-effective federalism. What could be more cost-effective for Ottawa than cutting the funds to be transferred to the provinces, when it is unable to manage its own finances? That is the cost-effective, flexible federalism they have been harping on about for several months.

The federal government's actions with regard to Bill C-76 hide a problem that is more serious than simply shovelling the Canadian deficit into the provinces' backyards, although this is indeed a major problem.

Canada is facing a fiscal crisis, and transferring the federal deficit to the provinces is only the beginning of the central government's inevitable process to withdraw from its obligations.

In this regard, we must remember that, in 1980, during the first referendum on sovereignty, the federal debt amounted to roughly $90 billion. Fifteen years later, the federal debt is nearly $550 billion. At this rate, according to the available estimates, the public debt accumulated in Canada will push its way past the $800 billion mark by the year 2000. You will agree with me that there is cause for concern and that these figures are telling us something.

Bill C-76 is clear proof of the fact that, unlike Canada, Quebec is already able to take charge of its own public finances and would do well take full responsibility for them as a sovereign State. Also, Bill C-76 is underhanded in that it provides for the establishment of new national standards. While cutting back transfers to the provinces, the federal government will not only maintain national standards for health but also introduce additional national standards for social assistance and post-secondary education, areas which, must we be reminded, both come under exclusive provincial jurisdiction.

This means that, under clause 48 of this bill, Ottawa will be able to interfere in areas of exclusive provincial jurisdiction. With the federal government holding the purse's string, Quebec would be exposing itself to being cut off by the federal government any time it failed to comply with these federal national standards.

Moreover, in an area as important as education, one can wonder how Canadian standards can possibly meet the aspirations and expectations of Quebecers in that area, when Canada cannot even recognize Quebec as a distinct society.

As we say where I come from, you can see just by looking. We did not need a constitutional agreement to see-it is clear as day-that Quebec is a distinct society. Given that even this obvious fact could not be recognized, what can we hope to get from this system?

In fact, Bill C-76 gives a free hand to the federal government to regard post-secondary as a social program. From now on, Ottawa will be able to enforce national standards in this area of exclusive provincial jurisdiction. If Quebec rejected the stan-

dards and refused or failed to comply with them, the federal government would be authorized to stop all transfers, even though this money is our own money, money coming straight out of Quebec taxpayers's pockets.

Similarly, there is nothing in this bill to force the federal government to look for a consensus amongst the provinces before putting these new national standards in place. Indeed, while the federal government must consult the provinces, at least in theory, it is not required to get their unanimous consent before going ahead and implementing new national standards.

Moreover, Quebec and the other provinces could, at any time, be the victims of new federal rules, since Ottawa has the authority to unilaterally amend the legislation.

I want to say a word on the government's legislative agenda, assuming of course that it has one. Not long ago, the federal government informed the official opposition of its intention to pass, in the next two weeks, several important bills, including Bill C-88 on internal trade.

The purpose of Bill C-88 is to implement the Agreement on Internal Trade. As shown during the debates on NAFTA and on the Uruguay Round agreements establishing the World Trade Organization, the Bloc Quebecois has always been in favour of trade liberalization and it supports the principle underlying that bill. It is common knowledge that Quebec is a free trader, and has been one for a long time.

However, the wording of some provisions, particularly clause 9, poses some problems. Clause 9, in particular, provides for a wider interpretation which could allow the federal government to intervene and impose retaliatory measures even when it is not involved in the dispute. The federal government is giving itself very important powers.

Then there is Bill C-91, which concerns the Federal Business Development Bank. That bill, which is a new attempt by the federal to centralize, will again result in useless and costly duplication which will increase the government's deficit.

While the trend, at least in Quebec, is toward regionalization, the federal government pursues its secular centralizing tradition. This is mind-boggling. I can only hope that Quebec's interests will not suffer too much when these bills are reviewed. This is doubtful though, considering what happened with Bill C-76.

Should this government hurt Quebec's interests with these bills, as it usually does, it will find us in its way, like it has since October 1993. We will vigorously and tenaciously defend Quebec's interests, as we have done since we were elected.

The contempt shown toward Quebecers will only last for so long. Soon, with the referendum, the federal government will realize the price to be paid for constantly attacking Quebec's interests and basic values.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened attentively to the hon. member's speech, and you will not be surprised to learn that I am not entirely in agreement with some of the things he said because, of course, the Government of Canada, and the Liberal Party in particular, has made it a habit of defending Quebec's interests and that is what the Government of Canada will continue to do with the same level of interest as it has shown in the past and that is what it will continue to do in a prosperous and united Canada.

I would ask my colleague to look at his own track record and that of his party regarding the number of times they have supported attempts to extend hours in order to increase the number of bills which could be voted on by the hon. members in the past, before accusing the government of not moving fast enough to get certain bills through. We have appealed to them many times. Will he tell us how many times his party came out in favour of this? I think that the answer is zero.

Will he also tell us whether he is aware that Standing Order 24 and Standing Order 28 in particular provide for the Parliamentary calendar, and whether he is aware of Standing Order 27, which stipulates that we could not propose before today a systematic extension of sitting hours for the coming weeks? Since it is the first day and the first hour of the first day, how could we possibly have proposed a systematic extension of hours before today? After all, it is the first day.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to comment on some of the things the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell said. He says the federal government has always made a point of defending the interests of Quebec. I have my doubts about that.

If ever a government chose to ignore the interests of Quebec, it is the Liberal government. Or should I say governments, to be as specific as the hon. member for Louis-Hébert, the successive governments under the Liberals.

People tell us: You have good representation in Ottawa, you have ministers from Quebec, you have a Prime Minister from Quebec. For more than 20 years, Canada's Prime Ministers have been Quebecers. The word window dressing comes to mind because, basically, has it done Quebec any good to have a prime minister or powerful cabinet ministers from Quebec in Ottawa? Did it prevent the implementation of the War Measures Act in 1970? Did it prevent the unilateral patriation of the Constitution in 1982? Did it prevent the demise of Meech Lake? What does

Quebec have to show for the fact that a number of federal cabinet ministers and prime ministers were from Quebec?

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Philippe Paré Bloc Louis-Hébert, QC

An illusion!

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

An illusion, as the hon. member for Louis-Hébert said. It was the illusion of French power. We have realized since then it was only an illusion, and Quebecers have realized this as well and will act accordingly this fall.

That being said, the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell talked about a prosperous and united country. United it still is, at least theoretically, under the constitution. We will see about that this fall. But prosperous is something else. Prosperous, I am not so sure. I talked about this in my speech, and if the hon. member had listened carefully, he would have noticed that this country is not as prosperous as he says it is.

But first of all, to answer his question, I wonder why the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell asked me a question in the House when he already knows the answer; in fact he gave the answer himself.

I said we had always shown we were ready and willing when asked to sit for extended hours, especially during that one weekend when we debated the government's outrageous proposal to deal with the railway dispute. Many of us were here when the House sat throughout the weekend to express our objections to the federal government's proposals. I said earlier that some of our colleagues did not show the same stamina, but that is not the point.

As for the other question about Standing Order 27, I may remind the hon. member for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell, who says he listened to my speech, that basically, my point was not that the government had failed to extend the sitting hours of the House before. I said that because of the government's poor planning, now, towards the end of the session, we have a kind of bottleneck and will have to pass a number of bills at breakneck speed, which will not improve the quality of debate in this House.

That was the point I was trying to make in my speech. The hon. member should listen more carefully next time.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:45 p.m.

Reform

Jim Abbott Reform Kootenay East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is always unfortunate that when a Bloc member speaks, we end up dropping into this whole us versus them; Canada, Quebec discussion and so on and so forth. The real issue here, as far as this motion is concerned, has more to do with the management of the affairs of the government.

I wonder if my friend from the Bloc might not agree that what is going on here is the government has purposely backed up legislation to the point that it will be able to put pressure on certain issues and certainly on certain people in its back bench by bringing in time allocation on some of the so-called hotter issues.

I would suggest-Mr. Speaker, you will have to correct me because I got away with this word the other day-that it is legislation by stealth. It is unfortunate that in Canada, where we live in a democracy, that the government would bring in time allocation, or closure by any other name, and then go forward with this knowing full well that we are coming to the 23rd. It is no surprise to the government any more than it is a surprise to my leader or any of the members in the House that we are coming to this point and yet we have this backlog.

I wonder if the member from the Bloc would not agree with me that the motion we are talking about really goes to the whole core issue of the lack of management on the part of the government or, in the alternative, that the government is attempting to bring in legislation and treating members of the House as though they were rubber stamps.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:45 p.m.

Bloc

Stéphane Bergeron Bloc Verchères, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for Kootenay East for his question. I thank him, because he is allowing me to drive home my message. I agree with him entirely. This is exactly what I was saying in my speech and in my response to my colleague for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell. I said that, with its motion today, the government is behaving with unprecedented amateurism and lack of foresight.

I agree entirely with my colleague when he says there is a complete lack of planning on the part of the government. My remarks were in fact intended to point out the government's bad planning of its activities, leaving us at the end of the session with a bottleneck of bills to consider and adopt in a very short period of time. This will affect the quality of debate and the quality of speeches, particularly, I would say, for my colleagues in the Reform Party in connection with the bill on gun control. I imagine they would have liked to say more about it, although I think a perfectly reasonable amount of time has been accorded it. I expect it is a concern for them.

Our concern is for other bills, which will have to be debated in great haste and which perhaps could have been debated longer, in our view. The government, however, decided to submit a series of bills at the last minute, and so here we are with all these bills to consider, debate and adopt within two weeks.

So it is a planning problem. It has nothing to do, as my colleague for Glengarry-Prescott-Russell explained earlier, with the fact that the hours of debate should have been extended earlier in the session. It has to do with the fact that the legislation now before the House should have been tabled earlier.

Business Of The HouseOral Question Period

12:50 p.m.

Reform

Jim Abbott Reform Kootenay East, BC

Mr. Speaker, I mentioned in my question to my colleague from the Bloc the fact that the government and everyone in Canada knew June 23 was coming. We can all look at a calendar.

In my question to the House leader I asked how it could be that we have 22 items that are supposed to be jammed through the House in nine days. I suggest now, as I suggested in my question to my colleague, that I cannot help but believe the government purposely and intentionally backed up the legislation to the point that when we come to debate these bills, the quality of debate will not be there because it will not be extensive enough.

I can speak for myself on the issue of Bill C-68. As revenue critic I had an opportunity to speak on an amendment we had brought and discuss the question of how the revenue minister and the customs department were not going to be able to enforce the provisions in the bill. However I have not had an opportunity to express to the House, to these members, to Canada the concerns people have in my constituency over the issues that have arisen on the issues in Bill C-68.

Reform has tried to encourage the government to deal with issues Canadians really care about, namely the deficit and debt. Bring in legislation, bring forward motions that deal with the whole issue of deficit and debt. Instead, on Tuesday night we came to the House and again worked like rubber stamps because that is the way the system works.

Why are we not discussing how the system is going to be changed so that the members, as the representatives of the people of Canada, can regain control or even gain control over some aspects of the expenditures of the government?

We should be here talking about tax reductions. We should be here talking about the issue of crime, not the paper thin way the government has come forward with its amendments, for example on the Young Offenders Act, but something with some real teeth.

We should be talking about referendums, citizen's initiatives and free votes. We should be doing things that are going to make a change for Canadians. What has the government done? "Oh, we are going to have a big change. We're going to bring Bill C-68", which I submit is nothing more than a warm fuzzy. It makes people feel good.

People are not dumb. Canadians have looked at that legislation. While many of the people who may want to see registration may say that they register cars and they register this and that. But when they are asked if they think registration will make any difference to society, to violence on the streets, they say that it will not make any difference but that it will make them feel better.

The government is bringing forward things like affirmative action which was repudiated by the people of Ontario last night. The members know one of the major things Mike Harris won on was the issue of employment equity or quotas which the government is trying to bring forward and to strengthen. Come on.

The government is also talking about bringing forward a toonie, which is the duplicate of a loonie. Why are we worried about $2 coins? Why are we not worried about making sure the coins get to stay in Canadians' pockets? Why are we worried about those kinds of things? Of course the government is going to say that the Reform Party is just trying to be obstructionist, to block things.