Debates of Sept. 22nd, 1995

Canada Post Corporation

[André Caron, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome this opportunity to speak to the motion moved by my colleague that the Canada Post Corporation include in its strategic development plans a local development perspective.

We have so often seen the negative impact that closing post offices has had on small communities in Quebec and Canada. The present government is very much aware of this and a few months ago, asked the Canada Post Corporation to set a moratorium on closing post offices in rural areas.

Considering the role played by the Canada Post Corporation in these small communities, I think it was a wise move on the part of the government and, furthermore, I think the Canada Post Corporation's review committee, to be appointed by the corporation, would do well and, in fact, should ensure that the corporation's development plans include a special focus on the development of local communities and that postal services continue to play the role they had played so far in these communities.

After expressing my support for this motion, I think I should comment on what was said by my two colleagues, the Liberal member and the member for the Reform Party. I think it is a good indication of the present situation in Canada and the problems we have.

First the hon. member for the Liberal Party said everything is fine at the Canada Post Corporation. The corporation is streamlining its operations, making a profit and introducing a number of programs, including literacy programs which, as far as I can see, would be used by the Canada Post Corporation to develop local communities. It is not quite enough in my view.

We then heard the hon. member for the Reform Party launch his party's customary attack on crown corporations, government services in general. According to him, the Canada Post Corporation's sole responsibility is to deliver the mail. Whether this is done by the Canada Post Corporation, a private corporation, an American corporation or whoever, the only responsibility of Canada Post is to deliver the mail.

This attitude has become increasingly widespread in this country, and I think it has a destabilizing influence on Canada as a country and on Quebec as the country I hope it will become. We can draw a parallel with what happened to the railways.

The railroads, which were among the major institutions of this country, have been abandoned. They did not believe in railroads, they invested in transportation companies, which were allowed to use heavier trucks that were then subjected to fewer inspections, hence the increase in the number of accidents and in the level of danger on our highways. In some areas of Canada, highways have been almost completely destroyed because they are now used to carry loads which ought to be moved by rail.

Meanwhile, the rail system is being dismantled. There is also the whole issue of telecommunications. We see in Quebec, and I believe it is also the case in Ontario, very serious problems caused by the fact that Bell Canada is presently restructuring its services on the basis of new technologies and a new personnel management policy.

This company is cutting jobs in order to withstand competition. This situation was caused by the fact that two or three years ago the CRTC allowed American companies, and I underline it did so despite opposition from Quebec, to compete with Bell Canada here in Canada. As a result, one of the most profitable companies in Canada, one with annual profits in the order of $900 million, or nearly $1 billion, was forced to compete by adopting its competitors' methods, including new technologies, lower prices and layoffs. In Quebec, this represents 4,000 out of 10,000 jobs.

This company, which made an important contribution to the political and economic life of Canada and Quebec, is currently being restructured. In addition to CN, Canada Post and telecommunications, our friends in the Reform Party are talking about privatizing hospitals. There is also talk about privatizing prisons in New Brunswick. If we go on like this, we will eventually find ourselves with a territorial entity called Canada, where there will be no government services, where the law of the jungle will prevail, where a bunch of small companies will compete without taking national imperatives into account in their business strategies.

A country, be it Canada or Quebec, cannot simply set its sights on globalization and set competition and the lowest costs as its goals. History shows that a country is created out of a sense of solidarity, a sense of nationhood. What is being shown here in this House, especially by our Reform colleagues, is that we are altering this concept of nationhood, of government services that has evolved over the centuries.

I think that by focussing on short term profits we are dismantling democratic countries, bona fide countries which made sure they could provide services to people and settle their land. I think that many of our fellow citizens, in Quebec and my region in particular, are becoming aware of this ill effect of new political ideas that came out of the blue in the early 70s. I think that in striving to restructure certain processes and change the way we do things as nations we are in fact destroying our countries.

I think that we will have to pay close attention to all this dismantling in our regions. Last week-end, more than 700 people gathered in my region. These municipal council members and representatives from various organizations were attending a general assembly to let people know that we want to continue to exist as a region. It is not true that our region will be shut down just because some banker, business leader or finance minister got the notion that we are no longer profitable.

We have settled this area. We have built communities and we want these communities to continue to exist. At a time when new ways of doing things are promoted, we can do as fine a job in Jonquière as in Montreal running a company or establishing a telephone service with real people to man the phones. I believe things can be done just as well in Montreal, Toronto, Jonquière, Chicoutimi or Roberval.

Citizens are realizing that, under the guise of putting into practice economic theories the fruits of which have never been reaped by the population, the structure of the country is being pulled apart to the extent that we no longer form communities, we no longer are citizens of a country; we have become mere consumers and investors.

I believe we must rise slightly above this vision of life and we, in this House, must look at things from a loftier plane and be able to tell our fellow citizens that we are heading in a direction that will ultimately transform us into vibrant countries, be it Canada or Quebec, which will be increasingly prosperous and fair with their citizens.

[Patrick Gagnon, Liberal, Bonaventure—Îles-De-La-Madeleine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the motion of our Bloc Quebecois colleague concerning the preservation of postal services in the regions.

I believe the government of Canada has reacted very well since the Liberals took office. It declared a moratorium on local post office closures. Of course, this applies to Quebec as well as to the rest of Canada.

What I found particularly interesting, in the motion as well as in the comments of the member for Kamouraska-Rivière-du-Loup, is that he seems to recognize the important role the federal government has to play in regional economic development. When listening to the speeches of these sovereignists, I felt that these unique centres of Canadian visibility had to be preserved in small communities all over the vast regions of Quebec. I thought it was a bit odd to hear these people say, on the one hand, that Canada does not work and that the only way Quebec can get whatever it deserves is by separating but then, on the other hand, that this House should maintain postal services as they are. This is very interesting. I feel it emphasizes how important the role of the federal government is and how much the Canadian government is welcome in what we call remote areas, in rural areas of Canada.

I think we are about to reach a turning point in our history, not on a political level, because Quebec still wants to be part of the Canadian federation, but on an administrative level, if you wish, for postal services in Canada.

During the last few years, we have seen the emergence of computers, modems, fax machines, and a whole new telecommunications technology. Thanks to all kinds of technologies, regions and above all the self-employed workers of these regions will be able to better communicate with the outside world.

Quebec does not need sovereignty, separation or independence to develop its rural regions. Services are in place, we have offices and the expertise necessary to meet the needs of the population, the business people and the students, to help them in their regional economic development rojects.

For the last 30 years, Quebecers, especially in the rural regions, where I come from, have always asked for further decentralization of federal government services and especially of provincial services.

Nevertheless, I must tell you this. Nothing prevents the province or the federal government, as things now stand, from decentralizing services. Obviously, 30 years ago, it was impossible to do that, for the simple reason that the new technologies did not exist in 1960.

Governments, businesses and social services in Quebec, particularly in remote areas, will be able to create some form of partnership and set up service points to serve local communities. If I understand the logic of the Bloc Quebecois, of the separatists, these service points designed to promote regional economy should naturally be located around the post offices of the Canadian government.

It is quite something to hear the opposition say that the regions have a future, provided that post offices remain open in small communities throughout Quebec and Canada.

We could do more. We have other departments. For example, the department responsible for science and technology recently announced a new service designed to make Internet more accessible to Canadians.

Last April, in Carleton-sur-Mer, in my riding of Bonaventure, I held an information session with officials of Science and Technology Canada, in co-operation with Québec Téléphone, as well as various other people involved in the region's socio-economic development. We came to the conclusion that, for example, the federal government has the means and the programs to establish this Internet network throughout Quebec.

Unfortunately, few municipalities and provincial organizations answered the call. This is sad. We have the tools and the moneys to create this new synergy and promote regional economic development.

Efforts are being made and we must forge ahead and find partners. Above all, we must convince school boards. We must convince CEGEPs, hospitals, as well as social services of all kinds, particularly those which fall under provincial jurisdiction, so as to ensure a better partnership and set up new ways of communicating with the rest of the world.

I believe that regions in Quebec and in Canada will prosper thanks to new technologies. It would certainly be possible to establish videoconference centres in those Canada Post buildings in order to give residents of those regions an opportunity to take courses or to communicate with people outside Canada.

I think that Canada Post has a new social role on top of its economic role. It must discover new technologies and encourage people to use those technologies in order to take care of their own economic development at the local level.

The Canadian postal service has quite a history. As mentioned by the parliamentary secretary a few moments ago, I think that the postal service has played a glorious role in Canada over the last 300 years. Now, because of the new technology and because of the reality of today's world, we have to find different markets for our products and different ways to provide our services. I think that our postal service is a bit like the PTT in France, which offers a wide range of services to its clients.

Today's clients are not necessarily in office buildings in Montreal or in other large cities. Teleworking is becoming more and more popular. For example, there is a new trend emerging in the

United States where people are leaving the cities and even the suburbs for small communities of 1,000 residents or less.

With today's technology, it is possible for, let us say, a translator-or an engineer, an architect, etc.-to work out of a small community somewhere in Quebec. If educated people, who often come from remote areas themselves, decide to go back to those regions, we have to ensure the presence of the federal government and its many services.

I see that we are running out of time, but I must tell you that I am very happy to hear the Bloc Quebecois say that this basic service provided by the government of Canada is still welcome in the regions and also that we must maintain this federal service to have an even more glorious future.

[Elwin Hermanson, Reform, Kindersley—Lloydminster, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I will not take much time, but I will make a few comments about Canada Post.

I congratulate you, Mr. Speaker, as being one of the Liberal members of Parliament who withdrew from the MP pension plan. You are to be acknowledged for that effort on behalf of Canadian taxpayers. You certainly have my personal congratulations as another MP who absented himself from the MP pension plan. We are in different parties but we share a kinship in opting out of the MP pension plan.

I find it really strange, really odd that there is a private members' motion before the House from a separatist suggesting that we somehow change a federal crown corporation. That is an irony and a bit of hypocrisy, if I am allowed to say that.

Twenty-five per cent of the population of Canada resides in the province of Quebec. If this member were a member in a separate Quebec, would he be putting forward such a motion to use the postal service of Quebec, a separate entity, for municipal development within his province? I suspect that his motives are not entirely pure and noble in putting the motion before us today.

I believe Canada Post should be put to more public scrutiny and exposed to competition.

I have been approached by many competitors of Canada Post who would like to get into the flyer business but find they cannot compete with Canada Post, not because they are not competitive but because Canada Post is subsidizing third class mail with first class delivery.

In New Zealand the first class postal rates have decreased and we have seen our rates go up. I believe the motive is to put competitors out of business. That is wrong and Canada Post should be scrutinized for the effort to squelch the competition unfairly.

[The Deputy Speaker]

The time provided for the consideration of Private Members' Business has now expired. Pursuant to Standing Order 96(1), this item is dropped from the Order Paper.

Resignation Of Member

[The Deputy Speaker]

This is a matter of importance. It is my duty to inform the House that a vacancy has occurred in the representation, namely, Mr. Rompkey, member for the electoral district of Labrador, by resignation effective September 21, 1995.

Pursuant to subsection 25(1)(b) of the Parliament of Canada Act, a warrant has been addressed to the Chief Electoral Officer for the issue of a writ for the election of a member to fill this vacancy.

It being 1.10 p.m., the House stands adjourned until Monday next at 11 a.m.

(The House adjourned at 1.10 p.m.)