Debates of Sept. 22nd, 1995

Duplication And Overlap

[Marcel Massé, Liberal, President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada]

Again, Mr. Speaker, at the meeting of the standing committee, I not only provided the complete list of those involved in making analyses, but I also explained what they had worked on.

Analyses were carried out for ministers to advise them on the current situation. Again, the opposition is trying not to shed light on the Le Hir studies because they were kept secret, but the Access to Information Act clearly states that analyses carried out for decision makers are confidential and therefore not covered by the act.

The opposition is trying to create a diversion to avoid disclosing that they themselves commissioned studies that were meant to be published, studies conducted by an institute in order to use its-and that is why the opposition-

Finance

[Marlene Cowling, Liberal, Dauphin—Swan River, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

Canadians are concerned about the increasing amount of government debt held by foreign investors. In the 1995 budget the Minister of Finance indicated he would explore options to make Canada savings bonds more attractive. Can the minister tell us what he is doing to allow Canadians to get control of our foreign debt and what are those options?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development -Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Dauphin-Swan River has shown a great interest in this, so perhaps it is not entirely a coincidence that she would ask me this question on the day that I am announcing the 1995 issue of Canada savings bonds which will feature our new RRSP option.

[An hon. member]

Good timing.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate her on what is undoubtedly a coincidence.

This new option will allow investors to register their Canada savings bonds directly in the form of an RRSP without needing a self-directed plan. There are no purchase fees. As well, the new bonds will have competitive interest rates guaranteed for the next three years and, if the occasion requires, it the interest rates will be increased.

The new issue will be released by Tuesday, October 10, and will be available until November 1. I strongly suggest that all members, particularly those across the floor, purchase these bonds.

Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister made passing reference to Albertans as being the fortunate fat cats of confederation; an attitude which led to the hated national energy program.

The Prime Minister should know that Albertans have contributed around $140 billion to confederation over the last 30 years. Last year alone they contributed $2 billion. Next year the government will transfer approximately $475 million less to Alberta.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Is it right for the Government of Canada to significantly reduce funding for pro-

grams that are the constitutional responsibility of the provinces, at the same time insisting on setting all the rules for the delivery of those programs?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we are still contributing a lot of money to those programs. It is the consensus in the House of Commons and in all the provinces, including a lot of the people living in Alberta, that medicare should be the same for the rich and the poor. That is clear in my mind.

I campaigned in Alberta for medicare and I will keep doing it because it is the one element in our social programs that the people believe in the most. They do not want to be subjected to the pressures that existed before: better services for the rich, second class services for the poor and the risk of losing everything when you are sick.

The best system is Canadian medicare. It is the same for the people of Alberta, the people of Newfoundland, Quebec, Ontario and British Columbia.

[Ian McClelland, Reform, Edmonton Southwest, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the reality of the situation is he who pays the piper calls the tune.

At the recently concluded conference of health ministers, all of the provinces and their health ministers were on one side of the issue and the federal Minister of Health was on the other side. The provinces and all Canadians want to resolve this issue. The only consultation taking place between the federal government and the provinces has been a letter stating that October 15 is the deadline.

Will the Prime Minister instruct the Minister of Health to be flexible on the deadline so that the provinces and all of the stakeholders involved in health care and the delivery of health care, which is under serious pressure, are able to come around the table and solve the problem without artificially imposed deadlines?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member said all provincial ministers are in agreement to more or less dismantle medicare and that is not true. Yesterday the minister of health for Quebec said the universality we are proposing is the best. He said if you start to accept some private clinics, that is the crack in the dam and he was opposed to doing that.

Do not affirm that everybody is against the policy of the government. The great majority of provincial governments want to keep medicare as it is.

Petro-Canada

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, Gordon Capital, the Toronto firm which employed the Prime Minister from 1986 to 1990, was appointed to head the trust responsible for liquidating the majority of the Petro-Canada shares held by the government. For its trouble, Gordon Capital and its associates will pocket commissions in excess of $65 million, the highest amount ever paid in Canada for such a transaction.

My question is for the Prime Minister. Was the Prime Minister involved in any way, shape or form in the decision to appoint his former employer to head the coordinators responsible for the sale of Petro-Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was not involved in that decision, which was made following a recommendation by the Department of Finance and the Department of Energy. This was done following an open bid to most brokers in Canada, as well as in the United States, I might add.

I should mention that the commission was not high; in fact, it was one of the lowest ever paid for such a transaction in Canada. It is obvious why Gordon was involved. We had the option of either selling on the open market or of arranging a block purchase, and Gordon Capital happens to be an expert when it comes to block purchases.

[Roger Pomerleau, Bloc, Anjou—Rivière-Des-Prairies, QC]

Mr. Speaker, after the blatant patronage in the case of Power DirecTv, the acquisition of MCA by Seagram and the Pearson airport deal, which is still under scrutiny, how can the Prime Minister explain the payment of tens of millions to his former employer?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance and Minister responsible for the Federal Office of Regional Development-Quebec]

Mr. Speaker, the question is absolutely ridiculous and laughable. First, some 15 other firms in Canada were involved. It must be pointed out that the margin between Gordon and the others was one of the narrowest ever seen for this type of transaction.

In fact, the member should congratulate the government. That was the best privatization process ever accomplished by any western government.

Sea King Helicopters

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of National Defence. I have learned that a Sea King helicopter crashed Wednesday night in Piopolis, Quebec. The crash was due to a transmission failure.

I had trouble getting this information from the Department of National Defence. I wonder if the minister will confirm this

incident and will he tell the House why it is a secret when one of our aging Sea King helicopters goes down?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, it is certainly not a secret. It is very unfortunate. The pilots felt as a result of a warning light coming on that indicated transmission trouble that they should make an emergency landing. That is quite publicly known. I cannot understand why the hon. member has had difficulty getting information on this.

[Jim Hart, Reform, Okanagan—Similkameen—Merritt, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in my recent visit to Shearwater I found out that the Sea King helicopter requires 25 hours of maintenance for each one hour of flying time. This definitely speaks to the serious situation the Sea King is in right now.

I can make my supplementary question very simple and I would like to make it direct because the children serving our country are literally falling out of the sky. How many other crashes must there be before the government takes action to replace the Sea King?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we know very well these helicopters are old and we know very well the parliamentary committee of which the hon. member was a participant recommended they be replaced. This is a matter the government said was to be pursued in the white paper. On the other hand, it does not want us to spend money.

It is a matter for consideration. Since the armoured personnel carrier contract is now en route we will look at the helicopters. In the meantime these helicopters are certified to fly until the year 2000. They are perfectly safe. I have been on them many times. If the hon. member would like to go for a ride I would welcome giving him one.

Coinage

[Anna Terrana, Liberal, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

Yesterday we launched the $2 coin. We also know the $2 coin will cause some problems, some concerns, some inconvenience and also some expense to certain sectors of our economy. What is the minister prepared to do to minimize the problems for the new coin?

[David Dingwall, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the unexpected but yet timely question relating to the $2 coin.

The member is quite right. Yesterday we unveiled the design of the new $2 coin which is a polar bear. Some of the young people have referred to it as "the bear". We hope to be able to work with the various small and medium size businesses to make the transition as smooth as possible.

The rationale for the decision was a result of the budget of the Minister of Finance. It clearly set out that by changing from the $2 note to the $2 coin we will save the taxpayers of Canada in excess of $250 million.

Tobacco

[Audrey McLaughlin, NDP, Yukon, YT]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Health.

One year ago I tabled a petition that called for the government to regulate tobacco under the Hazardous Products Act. The minister's response at that time was that tobacco could not be made safe and therefore could not come under that act.

Given the Supreme Court ruling, what are the government's plans to amend or replace the Tobacco Products Control Act and to deal with the situation as a result of the Supreme Court ruling?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Mr. Speaker, we will take guidance from the decision of the Supreme Court. It is absolutely essential.

We would rather not have to spend another seven years before the courts. That in effect is what has happened. We spent seven years and twenty-one days, to be exact.

It is very important, following the guidance of this decision, that we take the steps available to us and go as far as possible and as quickly as possible, because many people are dying as a direct result of tobacco products. We have to do everything in our power, especially to stop young people from starting up and having access to those tobacco products.

Government Response To Petitions

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to two petitions.

Committees Of The House

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 86th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, regarding the associate membership of committees. If the House gives its consent, I intend to move concurrence in this report later this day.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I believe there will be unanimous consent for the following motion. I move:

That the following members be added to the list of associate members of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs: Mr. Assad, Mr. McGuire, Mr. Duhamel.

(Motion agreed to.)

[Peter Milliken, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, if the House gives its consent, I propose, again seconded by the Chief Government Whip, that the 86th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs tabled in the House today be adopted.

(Motion agreed to.)

Petitions

[Rex Crawford, Liberal, Kent, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured once again to rise in the House pursuant to Standing Order 36 and present a petition on behalf of my constituents, to be specific, the agricultural sector of my constituency, who are upset with the proposed closing of the agricultural employment services offices.

They are petitioning the government to review this and give consideration to not doing this, because it is against what was in the red book, which stated "Jobs, jobs, jobs". This is a branch funded by the government that is creating jobs. Without it, employment and employees in the agricultural sector will be hurt.