Debates of March 14th, 1996

Tran Trieu Quan

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the reason is quite simple. I met with the family of Mrs. Tran and the ambassadors of Vietnam and, at that time, I presented a letter stating Canada's interest in protecting Mr. Tran's rights.

[Suzanne Tremblay, Bloc, Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that Mr. Pettigrew was not invited to that meeting; maybe he would have seemed less foolish.

To bring Vietnam back to reason, is the government ready to adopt the same attitude as that of Belgium and threaten Vietnam with sanctions if that Canadian citizen is not released very shortly?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, we know what the hon. member is trying to do. There is a little event taking place in two weeks and the hon. member is trying to make a contribution. Of course we would not think the Bloc would ever revert to tactics like that; it is way above and beyond that.

I want to be clear that when it comes to the responsibility for representing Canadians abroad, the consular service comes under the Minister of Foreign Affairs. That is why I was holding the meetings with the Tran family. That is why I directly made representations to the Vietnamese ambassador. That is why we specifically presented a series of démarches to the Vietnamese government, as had my predecessors.

We will take all measures necessary to ensure that Mr. Tran has full access to consular services. We will ensure that when the appeal process is finished we will make all representations to seek his release, as we said in that letter. We will do exactly what is required. I can assure the hon. member we will continue to work strongly and effectively on the file.

International Trade

[Paddy Torsney, Liberal, Burlington, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are very concerned about the Helms-Burton legislation in the United States. Given our government's strong resolve to ensure that the international rule of law will prevail and our unwavering resolve to protect Canadians' fundamental right to freely travel and trade around the world, can the Minister of Foreign Affairs bring the House up to date on the latest actions he has taken to fight the implementation of this U.S. law?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, the first thing I want to emphasize in opposing the Helms-Burton bill is that this is a full court press by a wide variety of members in this government. It is not just one minister. The Minister for International Trade is actively involved with the file; certainly the Prime Minister is actively involved with the file.

To give one indication, when the Prime Minister was at the meetings in Egypt yesterday, he met with the President of the European Union to specifically enlist its continued support and co-operation in fighting against that major legislation. We will also be meeting with the commissioner for trade, Sir Leon Brittan, when he is in town on Monday. The Minister for International Trade has written a letter to his counterpart, Mr. Kantor, indicating that we have initiated the process under NAFTA and we will be taking action under NAFTA.

We will be doing everything possible to indicate that we do not accept the premise or the action in the Helms-Burton bill.

Terrorism

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, it is nice to see the Prime Minister working so hard while he is in Egypt. I find it ironic that he has to go to Egypt to learn that some Canadian charitable organizations were providing support to terrorism when the Reform Party brought this issue before the House almost a year ago. Back then his government treated the issue as a joke. Only now does it seem to realize the seriousness of it.

My question is for the revenue minister. Can the minister assure the House that members of her ministry have already been in contact with the RCMP and with CSIS to determine which terrorist organizations in Canada have charitable status, or is this another example of tough talk but no action?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of National Revenue]

Yes, Mr. Speaker, I can confirm that members of my department have been in touch with members of the solicitor general's department and members of the foreign affairs department.

We take this extremely seriously. We want to find the right strategies to ensure that the charitable organizations we fund are not in any way connected to terrorist organizations.

[Val Meredith, Reform, Surrey—White Rock—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that the minister talks about the departmental people. I am talking about the people who are in the know, the RCMP and CSIS.

Since its creation in 1984, CSIS has had a legislative definition that terrorism is any activity in support of serious violence against persons or property for the purpose of achieving a political objective. Since the House has already defined terrorism, I ask the solicitor general if this government is prepared to use this definition in its terrorist fundraising legislation, regardless of whether or not these same organizations may supposedly raise money for humanitarian purposes.

[Herb Gray, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and Solicitor General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, the definition my hon. friend has pointed to is in a statute passed by Parliament. It has stood the test of various court interpretations. I am sure it will be very useful as we complete our work of updating our laws in order to deal with this serious terrorist problem.

I also want to add that all relevant departments are working together to deal with this problem. My hon. friend should have no doubt at all about that.

Social Housing

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is to the minister responsible for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

After underfunding social housing in Quebec for the last seven years, the federal government now intends to withdraw from this area.

Since 1987, Quebec has never received more than 19 per cent of CMHC funding. For Quebec, the annual shortfall averages out to $122 million, for a total in excess of $854 million.

Can the minister tell us if she intends to compensate for this withdrawal by transferring tax points, at least in the case of Quebec, which already assumes its responsibilities with respect to social housing?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, what I would like is for Quebecers or for the hon. member to make up our minds. They are always asking us to transfer more responsibilities. Well, we say in the budget that we will transfer both the funds and the responsibilities to them. What more do you want?

[Maud Debien, Bloc, Laval East, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the minister where the money is.

Now that the federal government is withdrawing from social housing, we can conclude that the injustice done to Quebec, which was condemned at the time by the Quebec Liberals-as the hon. member for Saint-Henri-Westmount certainly remembers-will never be redressed.

Since federal programs were never adapted to Quebec's specific needs and since Quebec has assumed its responsibilities in this area for a very long time, does the minister intend to continue imposing federal standards in social housing?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, I talked with the Quebec minister in charge, who told me that he was very interested in our proposal. We are proposing to transfer the amounts we now spend on social housing. As for the standards, we want to ensure that this money will indeed be spent on housing and directed to low income households.

We are currently spending some $350 million in Quebec. It is there if they want it.

Government Contracts

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the department of public works recently awarded a $35 million contract to maintain 12 maritime vessels to Fenco MacLaren, a Quebec company that does not even own a shipyard. Halifax Shipyard submitted the lowest bid and the best technical bid. It was the shipyard recommended by the Department of National Defence yet it did not get the contract. Obviously this government has put regional patronage above the interests of taxpaying Canadians.

Could the minister of public works explain to this House why a company that does not even own a shipyard and whose bid was over $1 million higher than that of Halifax Shipyard received the contract against the wishes of the Department of National Defence?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, as I explained earlier in this country's other official language, public works awards contracts in a very open process.

The contract was awarded to Fenco MacLaren. The headquarters for Fenco MacLaren Inc. are in Nepean and the last I heard, there is no shipyard in Nepean. The work will be carried out in Halifax and Vancouver as it should be.

[Bill Gilmour, Reform, Comox—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Fenco MacLaren Inc. is a 100 per cent owned subsidiary of SNC-Lavalin which is in Quebec.

We all remember the CF-18 contract. Then there was the Canadian Space Agency. Now we have this. Not surprisingly there are many unanswered questions regarding the awarding of this contract and this has brought the department's selection process under a great deal of scrutiny.

The standing committee on government affairs is currently reviewing the contracting processes and procedures of the government. Does the minister support a review by the standing committee on government affairs of the awarding of this contract?

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the standing committees are masters of their own affairs. They are free to decide what they will and will not do. It is certainly not up to me or my department to interfere in that matter, only to co-operate.

Speaking of Fenco MacLaren Inc. being partially owned by someone from Quebec, that just goes to show how well this country can really work. One company is in Quebec, one is in Ontario and the work is being done on the east coast and the west coast.

Immigration

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Konrads Kalejs is alleged to have participated in the deaths of 27,800 Jews. He was deported by the United States in 1988 and since 1994 has entered Canada twice and has been here most of the time. Finally last September his deportation trial was set for February but has now been put off until May.

Willowdale residents led by Rhonda Greenberg, the Canadian Jewish Congress led by Bernie Farber and many others have condemned our handling of this matter.

I ask the minister of immigration: Why the unconscionable delay in dealing with the continuing presence in Canada of this alleged Nazi war criminal? Surely we could do better.

[Lucienne Robillard, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to say that Canada is not and never will be a safe haven for war criminals. That is quite clear. We have made a commitment to Canadians and to the international community to take action against war crimes.

The hon. member for Willowdale is understandably concerned about the delays in processing our case load, so am I. And I can assure him that we will be closely monitoring the situation as regards delays and that we will try to do better. That said, it must be understood that these cases are extremely complex from a legal point of view and that they require a huge amount of documentation. Department officials need to be very well prepared before they start their investigations.

Again, I can assure the hon. member for Willowdale that we will act promptly on this matter.

Human Rights

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

To avoid creating any problems with China, the Thai government arrested and detained two members of Amnesty International, one of whom is a Canadian woman, who were trying to hold a press conference to draw attention to a report on major human rights violations in China.

In light of the fact that, according to the report that these members of Amnesty International were trying to release, China's economic reforms did not lead to human rights reforms, does the minister not view this as concrete proof of the failure of his government's policy on human rights and democracy? Does this not prove that Team Canada was never really concerned with human rights?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

No, Mr. Speaker. That is the wrong conclusion to draw.

We have expressed our very deepest concern about the record of human rights violations, but we are actively doing something about it. The most important initiative we took was just before Christmas. A major dialogue took place between Canadian officials, including the commissioner of human rights for Canada, and counterparts in China. A number of these issues were put on the table where we could actually get some direct results.

We are not going to change overnight practices that have been going on for a long time but we can engage in active dialogue. At the same time, we are investing, through CIDA, in very major programs to help develop better judicial systems and to help in the protection for women where we can make a very positive contribution to the enhancement of the rights of individuals in that country.

Canadian Wheat Board

[Jake Hoeppner, Reform, Lisgar—Marquette, MB]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

A Deloitte Touche report shows the scandalous lack of planning and budgeting at the Canadian Wheat Board. It has now been leaked to the public.

Will the agriculture minister finally give farmers accurate information on the wheat board's marketing problems or will farmers have to wait for more leaks to get the truth?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the report to which the hon. gentleman is referring is, I presume, the same report to which his colleague in the Reform Party referred yesterday. That report is one which apparently was conducted in 1992.

The fact that the wheat board undertook to have that study done indicates the wheat board's own concern about issues and the importance which the wheat board places on dealing with those issues. I am advised by the Canadian Wheat Board that since the report has been completed, the board has acted on the recommendations.

Trade

[Len Taylor, NDP, The Battlefords—Meadow Lake, SK]

Mr. Speaker, New Democrats and Canadian farmers are concerned that the federal government has not responded strongly enough to recent actions by the American congress.

The minister knows that the collapse of the American farm bill means that the subsidy levels for corn can revert to $7. The price guarantees for wheat are at $9. The U.S. government has reduced grazing fees on government lands by 20 per cent, creating another subsidy for beef producers.

Can the minister of agriculture assure Canadian producers with all sincerity that he is vigorously challenging these U.S. violations of our trade agreements?

[Ralph Goodale, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, the actions taken by the United States with respect to farm policy are always a subject of very active interest on the part of the Canadian government in discharging its responsibilities to make sure that policies internationally do not impinge on Canadian rights and interests in the arena of trade.

The United States has undertaken certain commitments to the new World Trade Organization with respect to other bilateral and regional trading agreements. The Government of Canada will be extraordinarily vigilant in ensuring that the United States and all of our other trading partners live up to the spirit and the letter of their obligations under those international agreements.