Debates of Sept. 18th, 1996

Government Contracts

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister tells us that an independent consulting firm was indeed hired to provide an independent opinion. The firm he is referring to is KPMG. The minister is not even through reviewing KPMG's report but he is already announcing that GM will be the sole contractor. It is clear that the report was only commissioned to buy some time.

Does the Prime Minister realize that, by stubbornly refusing to let the construction of the turrets be put to tender, he is actually depriving Quebec of another contract, worth more than $600 million, resulting in approximately 145 quality jobs being lost to Delco, in California.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I am sorry. I did not quite catch the name of the company to which the member is referring. Is he still referring to the armoured personnel contract or is he referring to the search and rescue helicopter contract?

One thing the hon. member and his colleagues in opposition conveniently forget is that much of the industry of Canada's military infrastructure is located in Quebec. The proportion of work that goes to the industries in Quebec is actually higher than the percentage of population of Quebec versus the nation as a whole.

While it may be true that in certain contracts work is not of a proportion that is acceptable to the hon. member, when we look at all of it, at the work that goes to Bombardier, to Marconi, to Oerlikon, Quebec does very well.

Department Of National Defence

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I spent more than 36 years in the Royal Canadian Air Force and the Canadian Armed Forces. I worked for many commanders and I commanded a flight, a squadron, a school, and a base, so I know something of leadership.

In fact, I commanded the Canadian Forces Officers Candidate School whose duty it was to determine the potential leadership capabilities of the candidates who went through.

My gut feel and a massive amount of input from service friends tell me that the present senior leadership in the armed forces is doing tremendous damage to that force.

Why can the Prime Minister not see this, recognize it and take action by removing the Minister of National Defence and the chief of the defence staff?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I have great respect for the hon. member. He had a distinguished career in the armed forces. However, even he has to acknowledge-he has been a member of the defence committee, he participated in the deliberations that led up to the white paper, he knows despite what he said today-that we have revitalized the leadership of the forces; that we have re-engineered the department, that we are saving money; that we are bringing business methods into play to save the taxpayers' money.

The leadership we are bringing forward now is a new generation that reflects the norms and values of Canadian society today. I am sorry the hon. member is uncomfortable with that.

[Jack Frazer, Reform, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the minister said that if generals in the service did not like what was going on, they were free to leave.

It appears that those who espouse the values of truth, duty and valour are to get out, while those who say "mea culpa but I'm not responsible" are not only retained but protected.

Why does the Prime Minister not take action to put the leadership that is required back in the Canadian Armed Forces?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of National Defence and Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I think it is leadership to deal with a department that over the years of the cold war unfortunately had developed administrative practices that needed to be streamlined, that had an officer corps that became too large for its needs.

We all agree on these things. I have heard the hon. member say them at committee.

We have shown leadership in setting up the inquiry to deal with the very unfortunate events that happened in Somalia. We will continue to show leadership. In fact the chief of the defence staff today outlined his vision of leadership for the 21st century for the forces.

I have met with many of the senior leaders of the forces in the last number of weeks. Despite the problems that are really wrenching at the very heart of the armed forces, they see light at the end of the tunnel. They see that improvements have been made so that they can meet the challenges of the years ahead.

Criminal Code

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, at a press conference yesterday, the Minister of Justice announced his intention to amend the Criminal Code to keep dangerous offenders in prison longer and keep a closer eye on them after their release. This is quite normal for those who have already been found guilty of a crime.

However, and this is my question to the minister: Does the minister confirm that, under his proposal, an individual who has been acquitted of or has never even been tried for a crime could still be ordered by the court to submit to supervision by police or correctional authorities and even to wear an electronic monitoring device?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, punishment in the criminal law and certainly in the Criminal Code is reserved for those who have been convicted of crime, and that has remained the same both before and after the bill I tabled yesterday.

The hon. member will see in the bill that we have added a section which builds on the jurisdiction already in the code in section 810.1. That provides the court with jurisdiction on the application of a provincial attorney general to order that anyone, where there is a reasonable basis to fear that he or she may commit a very serious indictable offence, may be restrained by court order in a manner consistent with public safety.

Just that sort of jurisdiction was confirmed as constitutional and valid in a judgment of the Ontario courts last year. We are building on that to make the streets safer and above all to fulfil our red book commitment from 1993 to bring in solid and meaningful legislation to deal with high risk offenders.

[Michel Bellehumeur, Bloc, Berthier—Montcalm, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister did not answer my question. But, since he is talking about this provision, can he assure the House that this provision does not violate the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, since at first sight it seems to fly in the face of one of our basic legal principles, namely the presumption of innocence?

[Allan Rock, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I respect the hon. member's commitment to the charter of rights and to individual freedoms.

I urge him to look carefully at the provisions of the legislation we tabled yesterday. I have every confidence that every part of that bill is completely consistent with the charter. In fact, I so certified it before I tabled the legislation.

The measures to deal with high risk offenders invest the sentencing judge with authority to impose conditions as part of the sentence which is a regular orthodox exercise of the criminal law power. The other provisions have to do with preventing crime. That is at the heart of this legislation. We are taking steps to prevent crime before it happens by identifying those who are at the highest risk of reoffending and giving the courts and the system power to intervene, to impose conditions and supervision to keep our families, our children and our communities safe. That is what this legislation is about.

Arctic Council

[Jack Iyerak Anawak, Liberal, Nunatsiaq, NT]

Mr. Speaker, in August the minister announced that this fall Canada was to launch a much awaited new initiative, the Arctic Council, which comprises eight circumpolar countries.

Given the leadership role of Canada in this important initiative for Canada's northern population and for all of Canada, can the minister inform this House when he will act to establish this very important vehicle for co-operation on the environment, economic and other critical issues facing the circumpolar north?

[Lloyd Axworthy, Liberal, Minister of Foreign Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to confirm that tomorrow Canada will play host to the inaugural meeting of the Arctic Council. In so doing, I want to pay tribute to the work of the hon. member and the Secretary of State for Youth and Training, Ambassador Simon and many other Canadians, particularly northern Canadians and the representatives, both government and non-government, of the other countries who have worked together over the past two years to bring together a brand new international organization to deal with the issues of the people of the north.

In particular, I would like to point out that perhaps for the first time in the history of international organizations, leaders of the governments, ministers of the respective governments, will be sitting down in full partnership with the indigenous people of the north so that they can work together to solve the problems of environment, trade and industry. It is an example we hope will provide an important lesson for the development of international organizations in the years ahead.

Goods And Services Tax

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, after 13 years of Liberal-Tory rule, we find that federal taxes in Canada have gone up $4,000 per taxpayer.

Despite the fact that the Liberal government promised twice in the last few years that it would get rid of the GST on books in this country, we find that the finance minister now says that he cannot afford to do it. Frankly, Canadians cannot afford this finance minister.

Can the finance minister tell Canadians why he has $159 million to fund flags, propaganda and movies through the Department of Canadian Heritage while he reneges on yet another promise and doubles the GST on reading in Atlantic Canada?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, our position on the tax on books today is exactly what I expressed yesterday. The member is one day behind the NDP, maybe 20 years behind the NDP.

The fact is that the removal of the tax on books would cost $140 million. The decision that has to be taken is, is that the best use of $140 million or in fact are there other uses to which that money should be put. At the same time, given that those who wish to remove the tax on books are people who basically want to promote literacy, a view that all of us in this House share, then the debate we have to have is whether that in fact is the best way to promote literacy. Under those circumstances we are certainly open to examining the possibilities.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the question is: What is the Prime Minister's word worth? He promised in writing to the Don't Tax Reading Coalition that he would remove the GST on books.

When the Prime Minister appears before his bank machine, how does he rationalize this latest Liberal cop out?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps I should tell you what the real issue is. The real issue is whether the government's revenues are going to increase. Because of increased economic activity they are in fact doing so.

The issue is what did the new government do after it took over from a previous government that increased taxes 39 times? I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, that we did not in our first, second or third budget, not once did we increase personal income taxes. That is our view.

Why is it that the Reform Party, which has so much difficulty talking about increases in government revenues, in its first budget suggestion talks about increasing government revenues by over $26 billion?

International Trade

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of International Trade.

Today we learned, once again through the media, that negotiations on free trade between Canada and Chile have reached an impasse, after nine months of talks.

Can the minister tell us if the cancellation of the visit that the Chilean president, Mr. Frei, was scheduled to make in early October is somehow related to the deadlock in the negotiations on a free trade agreement between Canada and Chile?

[English]

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member will be pleased to know that the negotiations with Chile have not reached an impasse. The eight series of negotiations were completed last weekend and the parties have gone off for further consultations.

I am hopeful that we can bring the negotiations to a very quick conclusion and bring about this agreement in the near future. In fact, they have been going at a very strong pace. In the case of Mexico it took us some 16 months and in the case of Israel almost two years to get to the point of signing an agreement. Yet in nine short months we have come a long way and there are but very few issues for us to resolve.

When that is done I would expect that the postponed visit of President Frei will be put on again. I know that President Frei is looking forward to coming to Canada and looking forward to a free trade agreement that will help give Canadian companies access to the market in Chile.

[Benoît Sauvageau, Bloc, Terrebonne, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the minister refers to previous agreements. Canada recently signed a free trade agreement with Israel. This agreement was signed in secret. The same thing is happening again with Chile.

Could the minister at least pledge greater transparency before signing a free trade agreement with Chile or with any other country?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, the agreement with Israel will be brought before this House and there will be every opportunity to consider every aspect of it in a very short period of time, as there will in the case of the agreement with Chile. Both of those agreements will help to increase our exports and our opportunity for market access.

Transport

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, when you are flying in a plane at 30,000 feet and the engine fails, passengers on board a Canadian airline will find little comfort in the fact that the minister's department examined the paperwork, not the actual aircraft, when issuing a certificate of air worthiness.

How can the Minister of Transport guarantee the safety of the Canadian public when his department inspects paperwork instead of inspecting aeroplanes?

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the safety audit that identified the two deficiencies is part of established procedures that are going on and are well understood within the entire airline industry.

We expect that all airlines will meet the highest safety standards and it is our job to ensure that they do. Until such time as that happens and the concerns of the minister are met, the minister is not prepared to risk the safety of the travelling public.

[Jim Gouk, Reform, Kootenay West—Revelstoke, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary offers words of reassurance but those words do not square with the facts. The facts are that when any airline's planes take off in Canada for the first time, they have not been inspected by Transport Canada. It only inspects the airline's paperwork.

I again ask the parliamentary secretary: How can he guarantee the safety of the Canadian public when his department only inspects the paperwork, not the plane?

[Stan Keyes, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member refuses to accept the fact that there are procedures in place where the paperwork entails that the maintenance individuals in charge of that aircraft are the ones responsible to ensure the safety of that aircraft.

In the case of WestJet of which he is speaking, it is a responsible airline. WestJet is working diligently to meet all of the requirements that are being put down by the Minister of Transport. Unfortunately yes, the travelling public were a bit inconvenienced in their flight plans, but the majority of WestJet passengers I am sure would agree that it is better to deal with any deficiencies in the aircraft on the ground and not at 40,000 feet.

Taxation

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Finance.

The United States is currently taxing Canadian seniors on social security benefits. Many of these seniors are trying to survive on less than subsistence income and would not be taxed if this income was earned in Canada.

Can the minister tell the House and seniors what steps he is taking to alleviate this hardship?