Debates of Oct. 21st, 1997

Supply

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Alex Shepherd, Liberal, Durham, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I can see that the members are getting a little upset with the facts, but the facts are quite clear. The government has committed to spending more in the area of post-secondary education.

It is quite clear that the Conference Board of Canada recognizes that Canada spends tremendously more money than most of its competing partners in the OECD countries. At the same time, we are not really getting a lot of positive results. Yes, we are getting a polarization between knowledge based workers and all the rest. We have to find better ways to get more people involved in lifetime training skills.

I recognize and I share some of the things that the conference board has said. I would have thought that some of the members of the NDP would be concerned about some of these issues.

They talk about how to develop lifelong learning skills, how to encourage employers to engage in some of these programs. It has been this government that has recognized the importance of making an intervention between people who are now taking higher skilled education in the post-secondary education system and integrating them with a work force.

I have been very pleased to be part of a government that has developed a program to take young students who are engaged in information technologies and introduce them to some of our small and medium size businesses to upgrade their skills so that they too can employ more people.

It is amazing when we actually look at some of our industrial structure, that we see many of our businesses spend less money on technological innovation than do our American partners. It is very important that we start putting more stress in these areas.

The government has expanded the use of the IRAP program to encourage and foster evolving technologies in small and medium size businesses. It has created another horizons plus program which basically takes some of these young people who are also engaged in the area of trade and studying trade at post-secondary education and injects them into small and medium size businesses, the purpose of which is to make them export ready. These are some of the positive ways that governments can be part of that.

The government is introducing an $850 million Canadian innovation foundation. I can tell members that the post-secondary institution in my riding is very happy with that initiative. I am spending a lot of time making sure that they get a piece of that so those young people can get better and higher skilled jobs in the future.

At the same time as we are talking, we have a problem because the immigration department is besieged with requests to bring more people into the country to take highly skilled jobs because we do not have people to do that work. That is atrocious. It is a travesty of our system.

But saying that—

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

It being 6.15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the business of supply.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those in favour will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Division No. 12

[The Speaker]

I declare the motion lost.

The House will now proceed to the taking of several deferred recorded divisions.

The House resumed from October 9 consideration of the motion and of the amendment.

[Bob Kilger, Liberal, Stormont—Dundas, ON]

Mr. Speaker, you will find unanimous approval for the members voting on the previous motion to be recorded as voting on the motion currently before the House, with the Liberal members having voted no.

[Chuck Strahl, Reform, Fraser Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Reform party members present will vote yes on this motion unless instructed otherwise by their constituents.

[Jim Pankiw, Reform, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I have just arrived and I would like my vote to be recorded with my colleagues for votes two to five.

[The Speaker]

So ordered.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the members of the Bloc Quebecois vote in favour of the amendment.

[John Solomon, NDP, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

Mr. Speaker, members of the NDP present this evening vote yes on this motion.

[André Harvey, Progressive Conservative, Chicoutimi, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to confirm that the members of our party will vote in favour of this amendment motion. They are prepared to delay it to allow the members of the Reform Party to adjust their vote.

[John Nunziata, Independent, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe the House has heard the question yet.

[The Speaker]

I asked permission from the House to dispense. I did not hear a nay and that is why I dispensed with the reading.

[John Nunziata, Independent, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like the motion to be read.

[Some hon. members]

It is too late.

[John Nunziata, Independent, York South—Weston, ON]

I heard from the other side of the House that it is too late. In view of the fact that the members think it is too late I think a recorded vote would be needed.