House of Commons Hansard #17 of the 36th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was deficit.

Topics

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to participate in today's debate. I have been listening very carefully to the comments of all members on both sides of this House.

As I looked over the motion that was presented by the fourth party I was struck with the word “condemns”. I believe that if they were being fair and reasonable they would compliment the government on the result of its policies and its fiscal plan.

It is important when we consider this motion to look at the record, to look at where we started, to look at where we are today.

I am not going to say the job is done. It is not. There is more to do. Unemployment is too high. My goal is to see that anyone who wants to work will have the opportunity to fully participate in our society. That is the goal. I think it is the goal of every member who sits on the government side of the House and frankly I think it is the goal of every person who comes here to this wonderful place. We want people to have opportunities to maximize and achieve their potential. We want them to have the dignity of work. We want them to have the skills so that they can prepare for the jobs being created.

To be fair and reasonable as we begin and continue this debate today, we have to look at where this government started from, where we are today and where we are going. Then we can consider this motion before the House today for what it really is.

Where did this government begin? In 1993 the deficit that was inherited was some $42 billion. Where are we today as just announced by the finance minister? The deficit stands at $8.9 billion with an expectation that the budget of the Government of Canada will be fully balanced with a deficit of zero by the next fiscal year.

That is an incredible and enormous achievement. The assessment is not by those of us who sit in this House. It is not just by the Liberals. That assessment is by the international investment community which looked at Canada a few short years ago and said this country is on the verge of bankruptcy, this country is not a good place to invest, this country needs solid, prudent fiscal and economic management. I suggest especially to the people in my wonderful riding of Thornhill that is exactly what Canadians have had under the Liberal government since 1993.

The United Nations has declared that Canada number one in the world as a place to live and work. More recently a study by KPMG determined that Canada, among all those countries surveyed, has a significant competitive advantage. Our cities rank among the best in the world not only as a place to live but as a place to work. The same study suggests that Canada is head and shoulders above our neighbours to the south as a place to invest.

There are certain things that give us that competitive advantage. Those things are relatively new and some have been around for a while. What are those things? We have a government dedicated to balancing the budget, to responsible and prudent fiscal management and which is dedicated to ensuring interest and inflation rates are low. These are the things we need to create a climate for job creation and investment. They go hand in hand.

When government attempts to create jobs directly it has to do so with tax dollars. This does not mean those jobs are not important. It means that government must tax in order to create jobs. It is far more effective to create a climate which encourages the private sector to create those jobs. Since 1993 we have seen over one million jobs created in this country. In this year alone 297,000 jobs have been created across the country. Is that enough? Of course it is not.

In 1993 unemployment was 11%. Today unemployment is 9%. Is that low enough? Of course not. There are two particular segments of our society that concern me. One is youth who have not had their first job or who are finding it difficult to get a job and to use their talents, skills and education. The other is the older workers who have been displaced by restructuring and technology and who need training and retraining to be productive and useful in our society.

The sound and prudent responsible fiscal management that this country has had since 1993 has resulted in interest and mortgage rates, which were so much higher in 1993, now fueling economic growth and job creation that will lead the G-7 nations. Canada will out perform all the G-7 nations. Is it just the members on this side of the House who are saying that? No. Independent forecasters are looking at the rate of growth of the Canadian economy. They are looking at the job creation numbers and they are the ones that are saying that the fiscal plan, the sound economic management as proposed by the finance minister and the government is working. We are not there yet.

There are other factors which make our competitive advantage something to shout about. As a former provincial minister of health I can say Canadian medicare is a huge competitive advantage. They have tampered with medicare, killed medicare. I say to my friends in the Reform and Conservative parties, whose policies I believe would devastate medicare, that medicare is a significant competitive advantage. If medicare is tampered with it kills jobs.

To those who are sceptical about the government's commitments, I say that the government was very quick to respond to the National Forum on Health which said that the federal government should maintain the transfer payment commitments to the provinces at $12.5 billion. That is the commitment of the government. It will help the provinces to sustain and maintain medicare and ensure that the principles of the Canada Health Act are protected.

There are two reasons. First is our competitive advantage and the second are the values and the soul of this country. I do not think there is a Canadian who is not proud when told by people outside this country that we live in a place where money is not a factor in access to medicare.

Are there problems today? Yes, there are. I challenge everyone in the House to consider what is happening south of the border. Take a look at the 40 million people in the United States who have no access to health care, to the 100 million people in the United States who have inadequate coverage. Try to understand what would happen if the Reform or Conservative parties were successful in their Americanization of Canadian medicare. I shudder to think.

In 1993 jobs were being lost, people were feeling insecure, people had no hope. Today Canadians are confident. Jobs are being created, interest rates are at an all time low, the budget is on the verge of being balanced. Canadians know that we will have new problems and challenges because the demands of a global economy and of those who need the assistance of government will continue to be there. It will be very difficult to respond to all of those demands.

As we talk about the importance of sound fiscal management, it is also important to note that it must continue. We on this side of the House will continue to follow a prudent and responsible course, one that will give opportunities to the young and the old, one that will enhance and ensure that those who need it will have access to education.

Canadians expect medicare to be preserved. That is my goal and the goal of the government. We want to create an opportunity for all in the country to prosper. That is why I will not support the NDP motion which is before the House today. It is misguided and irresponsible and out of touch with the realities of 1997.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Bloc

René Laurin Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am flabbergasted to hear comments such as the ones that were just made, particularly by the last two government members.

They are telling us things could not be any better. They even made up a poll to demonstrate their point of view. The government is hiding the facts. Canada is the greatest country in the world, Canada is the richest country in the world. Every time such comments are made, someone rises to remind the government that our country has the highest unemployment rate, that it has the largest number of poor, hungry children, that it has the most trouble with its debt.

What does it mean to be the greatest and the richest country in the world? Where is this wealth? With so many unemployed, so many poor children, so many people having a hard time finding jobs, where is the wealth?

It must be in the hands of those who control it. We are asking the government to stop.

We agree that debt reduction should be a priority. However, we disagree with the means used to achieve this result. We are telling the government: “The idea is good, but do not implement it in this fashion. Stop asking the weakest in the family to make an effort to pay off the family's debts. They should not have to do that. They will do their share, but the other family members must also do theirs”.

Let us stop putting the burden on the most vulnerable ones. This is what we are asking the government, but it is so concerned by its public image that it no longer sees reality. It merely says: “We are the best, we are the finest. We meet with world leaders. We go to Russia and bend over backwards”. Meanwhile, 1.4 million Canadian children go hungry. The national unemployment rate exceeds 10% and the government is burying its head in the sand.

I wish the Liberals would wake up and realize it is time to set more appropriate objectives, such as those proposed this morning by NDP members, even though we do not fully agree with them. We tell them too that the target is right. However, in order to hit that target, they seem prepared to give up all the powers granted to the provinces and give them back to the federal government. This is what concerns us, and we will discuss this issue. Again, even though we may agree on a given objective, different means must be used to achieve it.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will respond to my colleague in this way. I believe that we must have a strong economy in order to address the important social issues and social programs that we have always valued. I also believe that Canada is a partnership where each of the provinces comes together with the federal government to solve our problems.

In my remarks I was very careful to be clear that the job is not yet done. While the United Nations sees us as the best in the world and while private forecasters say we are doing better than any of the G-7 countries, we know we have problems that must be addressed. Unemployment is still too high. Child poverty is a real issue. There is a need for educational opportunities for research and development and innovation.

The strategy of the government is to provide a balanced approach where we will work together with our partners in the provinces to achieve our goals. We will do it in a responsible way. We will do it with the hand of partnership and in a fiscally responsible and prudent way so that around the world people will know that Canadians are working together.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:50 p.m.

Reform

Ken Epp Reform Elk Island, AB

Mr. Speaker, what frightens me when we hear the Liberals talking is that they speak with such passion they are quite convincing. They believe that what they say is true. It frightens me because they are able to deceive Canadians by being so totally deceived themselves about the facts.

I want to draw an analogy. In my youth I worked as a truck driver on the big rigs. We did not have phones in the rigs in those days but let us take it to modern days. Here I am, my job is to haul some combines from Regina to Winnipeg, which conveniently is about 600 kilometres, about 100 kilometres for every billion dollar of debt we have. I take the truck and phoned my boss and say I am doing fine. I tell him I am at Indian Head, a few kilometres away, and I am doing great. He says, “Good, what time do you think you will get to Regina?” I say, “Well, I may not because Regina is behind me. I'm on the road. I'm going about 20 to 30 kilometres an hour but it is behind me.” I keep on driving all day and the boss phones again. He says “How are you doing now?” I say, “Well I've just crossed the border into Manitoba”. He says, “Hey, you are supposed to go to Regina”. I tell him I will go a little faster.

We had the Trudeau Liberals for awhile and then we had Mulroney Conservatives and they goosed the thing up to 40 kilometres an hour, $40 billion a year. Now we have these Liberals and just as they are approaching Winnipeg, $600 billion, they are bragging because they have slowed the truck down to 17 kilometres an hour. I am sorry, now it is only going nine kilometres per hour, but Winnipeg is just about there and Regina the destination is way back behind in the rearview mirror. And these guys think they have—

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

I was just wondering if the hon. member was going to get there before we get into statements. Perhaps the hon. member would like to respond.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Elinor Caplan Liberal Thornhill, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened very carefully to the geography lesson by the member opposite. I heard no question. If the member were looking forward as opposed to backward, he would understand the important progress the government has made in securing Canada's future.

SupplyGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

The Speaker

I was just getting interested in that trip myself, but it being almost two o'clock we will go to statements by members and maybe get in a couple more statements today.

Fleetwood Canada Ltd.Statements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

John O'Reilly Liberal Victoria—Haliburton, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to rise and salute the employees of Fleetwood in Lindsay, Ontario.

Fleetwood is the maker of the highest quality recreational trailer products in North America. It recently celebrated its quality above all achievement of attaining a rating of 93% for customer satisfaction. The employees of Fleetwood in Lindsay have proven once again that they can compete with the world and win every time.

Congratulations to the management and staff for their tremendous achievement and dedication to quality above all.

PenitentiariesStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Reform

Grant McNally Reform Dewdney—Alouette, BC

Mr. Speaker, Larry Takahashi was sentenced to three life sentences for committing 14 rapes on Edmonton women. He is now serving time at the Ferndale golf and country club for minimum security prisoners in my riding of Dewdney—Alouette, B.C. For his punishment Mr. Takahashi is confined to an institution that boasts a nine hole golf course and a choice of Coke and Pepsi machines.

Is the Ferndale golf and country club too intrusive for the balaclava rapist that he now needs leave to visit family and friends? He raped 31 women and in 1991 he was granted leave which was revoked due to public pressure.

The citizens of my community, of Edmonton or anywhere else in Canada, should not have to beg the solicitor general to keep their families safe from sexual predators. A competent and compassionate minister would place the safety of the Canadian public and the well-being of victims above the demands of coddled criminals.

Removal ServicesStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Andrew Telegdi Liberal Kitchener—Waterloo, ON

Mr. Speaker, chapter 21 of the Auditor General of Canada's latest report deals with the mismanagement of the military and the way it conducts the $100 million plus household goods removal service of the federal government. It is inefficient, provides poor service and is open to corruption and conflict of interest.

This past month the Regina police laid fraud charges against a former manager of a moving company. The 24 alleged victims included 7 private citizens, 10 corporations, 5 provincial government agencies and 2 RCMP moves. The competition bureau is also investigating.

Since 1994 the average weight per government move has increased by 14% while the military has reduced its penalties for fraud. Why is the military restricting the ability of over 80% of the 3,000 carriers in Canada from doing moves for the federal government? It is time to get the military out of mismanaging government moves and to return the military to military functions.

Amnesty InternationalStatements By Members

1:55 p.m.

Bloc

Monique Guay Bloc Laurentides, QC

Mr. Speaker, this week has been designated Amnesty International week.

The Bloc Quebecois therefore takes pleasure in recognizing in the House the exceptional work done by this organization and the some 8,000 volunteers who fight for rights and justice around the world.

According to Amnesty International, thousands of political prisoners are currently been held without charge or trial in 70 countries. In addition, cases of torture and harsh treatment may be found in at least 120 countries. It is a good thing that the international community can still count on organizations such as Amnesty International.

On my own behalf and on behalf of my colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois, I congratulate Amnesty International and wish it continued success.

The Late Simone FlahiffStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Jean Augustine Liberal Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise to pay tribute to the late Mrs. Simone Flahiff, a friend and constituent in Etobicoke—Lakeshore.

Simone was a challenging woman. She challenged all to be the best and applied the same standard to herself. Her crafts were legendary as was her cooking. She loved making floral arrangements for her church, Our Lady of Peace, where she was a founding member. The Catholic Women's League, the Liberal Party of Canada and the Liberal Women's Commission received the benefit of her abilities.

Simone will be greatly missed by her son Terry, family and friends. Simone watched the daily question period and I know she is watching us today.

Simone, my friend, thanks for your years of service to our communities. May you rest in peace.

Co-OperativesStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

John Harvard Liberal Charleswood—Assiniboine, MB

Mr. Speaker, National Co-op Week was celebrated last week from October 12 to October 18 and International Credit Union Day was on October 16.

As a powerful social and economic force in Canada today the 10,000 co-operative enterprises represent a unique form of business, bringing together both capital and people to fulfil community needs. For many people and communities the co-operative model is vital, relevant and a financially sound business solution. It allows members, communities and employees to jointly establish new businesses and save existing ones.

Also as partners with the co-operative sector the government is profoundly committed to the co-operative option as a viable way of helping to revitalize rural Canada.

Today I ask all members to join me in commending the Canadian men and women who have chosen co-operation as their fundamental way of contributing to the vitality of their communities.

Small Business WeekStatements By Members

October 21st, 1997 / 2 p.m.

Reform

Werner Schmidt Reform Kelowna, BC

Mr. Speaker, in this time of technology, science and small business we need to recognize that today about 52% of all Canadians employed in the private sector are in small business with fewer than 100 employees per business.

At least 85% of all new jobs created in Canada are created by small business. Many of these businesses relate to advances in computer and telecommunications technology. They are altering the core products and processes at the heart of the Canadian economy.

With the increasing competitiveness of highly skilled labour forces dedicated to superior product design and performance, small and medium size businesses have the advantage. It is easier to sustain innovation and competitiveness. Indeed several of the most prosperous and competitive economies of the world today are based on small firms.

The government knows that the above is true. Why does it take small business tax dollars to provide grants to big business?

Week Without ViolenceStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Liberal

Lynn Myers Liberal Waterloo—Wellington, ON

Mr. Speaker, the week of October 19 to October 25 marks YWCA Canada's second annual Week Without Violence. For these seven days the YWCA is challenging all Canadians to live without perpetrating, participating in or observing violence.

This universally significant initiative should be supported year round. A society with less violence is a desirable goal. We as parliamentarians should take a visible role in supporting initiatives such as this one. May our support stand as a statement to all Canadians that any violence is unacceptable in society.

In particular we need to encourage and teach our youth that there are alternatives to violence. To that end I am proud to advise that in our gallery today are students and teachers from Waterloo-Oxford District Secondary School in Bayden, Ontario. This high school is located in my riding of Waterloo—Wellington. I am proud that we are able to afford these students greater insight into the Canadian federal system.

It is my hope that these students will leave Ottawa with a new and expanded—

The UrsulinesStatements By Members

2 p.m.

Bloc

Yves Rocheleau Bloc Trois-Rivières, QC

Mr. Speaker, 1997 marks the 300th anniversary of the arrival in Trois-Rivières of the Ursulines, a religious order, answering a call from Providence and France to develop New France.

As they got off the ship on the morning of October 10, 1697, with the mission of teaching young women and looking after the disinherited, the handicapped and the sick, it was a moment of great excitement for the settlement of Trois-Rivières, which had been founded 63 years earlier and which had neither school nor hospital.

The people were full of hope as they welcomed the Ursulines, who went on with generosity, self-denial and devotion to fulfil their vocation first in Trois-Rivières and then throughout Quebec.

As the member for Trois-Rivières, I would like to express, today, October 21, the feast day of Saint Ursula, patron saint of this community, our deepest gratitude and our sincerest respect to the Ursuline nuns for their exceptional contribution to the history of Quebec.

Bloc QuebecoisStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Discepola Liberal Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Quebecois' decision to force the BQ member for Drummond to pay back corporate donations accepted during the last election campaign is, to say the least, questionable.

How can the Bloc justify demanding that this MP pay back donations received from corporations when the Bloc never applied the same rule to itself? What difference do the righteous separatists from the Bloc Quebecois make between corporate donations and the $153,048 received from the Parti Quebecois in 1993-94?

Would they have us believe that the Bloc Quebecois is less likely to be influenced by the PQ than by a small business in Drummondville?

The Bloc Quebecois is so obsessed with saving face in this fundraising issue that it is losing its mind.

VolunteersStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Reform

Deepak Obhrai Reform Calgary East, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to acknowledge and commend the countless volunteers who unselfishly devote their time and energy to making their communities a better place to live.

These volunteers ask for nothing in return. As a result of their efforts, dedication and commitment to their communities, their friends and their families enjoy a high quality of life that has become the envy of the world.

I cannot stress strongly enough that these volunteers are a sense of pride for all Canadians. I therefore take great pride in acknowledging the following community associations in my riding: Abbeydale, Albert Park/Radisson Heights, Applewood Park, Calgary Marlborough, Crossroads, Dover, Erin Woods, Forest Heights, Forest Lawn, Inglewood, Marlborough Park, Millican Ogden, Penbrooke Meadows and Southview.

Our heartfelt thanks goes out to all these community association volunteers. Their commitment has not gone unnoticed and is very much appreciated.

Women's RightsStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, this week marks the struggle by Canadian women to be recognized as legal persons in their own country. It reminds us of one thing and that is just how much the federal government has reduced women to the status of non-persons.

Are women persons under the law when the government will not honour the law of pay equity? Are women persons under the law when the government leaves women without protection from a violent partner? Are women persons under the law when the government terminates all women's career counselling centres? Are women persons under the law when the government offloads responsibility for health care on to the shoulders of women and their families? Are women persons under the law when the government denies women the right to a pension in their own name? Are women persons under the law when the government has relegated the vast majority of women to part-time, short term, on call, low skill and low paying jobs?

No, women are not persons in the full sense of the word under the government. Let today be a call to action to reverse this trend to ensure women their right to live in safety, in security and with dignity.

Foreign AffairsStatements By Members

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

Rey D. Pagtakhan Liberal Winnipeg North—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is always an honour to rise in the House. Today I am particularly delighted to note the meeting of our Prime Minister with the President of Russia.

Meetings like this among or between leaders of the world serve to enhance international goodwill and thereby help advance mutually beneficial social and economic agendas which are ultimately instruments of peace.

Today I would like to highlight the initiative of our Prime Minister to develop a shipping route between northern Russian ports and the port of Churchill in northern Manitoba. This is a fine example of an initiative which is good for both countries.

Projects such as this are a considerable boost for both nations.

As Canadians we can take pride in the efforts of the Prime Minister and the government and our partners in the private sector. As a Manitoban I feel an added sense of pride.

Bloc QuebecoisStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

I hate to have to tell you, Mr. Speaker, that the Bloc Quebecois is facing a rather serious and embarrassing problem.

These paragons of virtue in party financing just realized that even a group as prestigious as theirs always runs the risk of having members who do not follow the rules. The very people who just recently were boasting in this House about never accepting corporate donations are now forced to take back their outcries and their attacks.

The Bloc member for Drummond is not the only one to have accepted corporate donations. Recently, we showed that the Bloc Quebecois had accepted more than $10,000 in corporate donations during previous funding drives.

And now we begin to see what lurks beneath the surface.

War MedalsStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have been shocked to learn that the war medals of deceased Canadian World War I veteran, Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, hero and author of the enduring poem, In Flanders Fields , will be auctioned off this Saturday in Toronto. In Flanders Fields became the world's most popular poem of the first world war. It is now read throughout the world every year on Remembrance Day. Even the symbolic poppy was chosen out of the popularity of John McCrae's poem.

As we near Remembrance Day many Canadians will be touched by the words of John McCrae. I am afraid that this year Canadians may not just be mourning the loss of hundreds of thousands of Canadian war veterans but also the loss of an important piece of our heritage.

I urge the Minister of Canadian Heritage to prevent our heritage from being auctioned away. I ask her to assure the House that she will obtain these medals for the dignity of our veterans who fought for this country and for the memory of our Canadian hero John McCrae and place them in the Canadian War Museum in Ottawa.

Small Business WeekStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

Susan Whelan Liberal Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, yesterday a colleague from the other side used his time to lament the situation of small and medium size businesses in Canada, but in fact Canadian businesses are working in an excellent climate and are prospering.

As my colleagues know a recent report by a management consulting group extolled the virtues of Canada as a place to do business. It said that on the basis of cost Canada is the number one location for manufacturing. As well, it noted that Canadians cities are shown to be more cost competitive than their U.S. and European counterparts.

The theme of this year's Small Business Week organized by the Business Development Bank is “Powering Growth, Building Success”.

This week, October 19 to October 25, gives an opportunity to celebrate small businesses in Canada and to acknowledge that Canada is not only the best place in the world to live. It is also one of the best places to do business.

Criminal CodeStatements By Members

2:10 p.m.

Independent

John Nunziata Independent York South—Weston, ON

Mr. Speaker, today I had the opportunity once again to introduce a bill in the House to repeal section 745 of the Criminal Code.

Section 745 gives the opportunity to convicted killers, both first degree murder and second degree murder, to apply to have their parole ineligibility reduced after serving only 15 years in prison.

It is outrageous that our criminal justice system should allow itself to be made a mockery of by section 745 of the code.

In its wisdom the last parliament passed a bill at second reading to repeal section 745. Regrettably the government dominated justice committee killed the bill at committee.

I urge all members of Parliament to expedite the passage of the bill to instil a bit of justice in our justice system.

TaxationOral Question Period

2:10 p.m.

Calgary Southwest Alberta

Reform

Preston Manning ReformLeader of the Opposition

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal finance minister can talk for hours about how to spend taxpayers' money but he gets choked up when it comes to the subject of tax relief. Yesterday under questioning he grudgingly acknowledged that he is going to reduce taxes for Canadians. I know it hurt him to say it.

My question for the finance minister is simple. When will he lower taxes? By how much will he lower taxes? For whom will he lower taxes?