Debates of Dec. 10th, 1997

Search And Rescue

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I am sure everyone in the House joins in offering our condolences to the families of all of those who have been injured, as well as to the families of the deceased.

The weather conditions have been particularly bad in the area but I was informed just before question period that the Hercules was able to get in and complete its mission.

Transport Safety Board representatives will be there as soon as possible with Transport Canada representatives to fully investigate this very unfortunate crash.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, our search and rescue teams are among the best in the world but they cannot do their job if we do not give them the right equipment.

Because this government has been dithering about helicopters for four years, it took the Winnipeg Sun to rescue injured Canadians. Why must Canadians continue to pay the price for a foolish campaign promise that this Liberal government made in 1993?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we did not proceed with the buying of helicopters in 1993 for one very obvious reason. The program required the government to spend $6 billion and at that time the government could not afford to make such a large expenditure.

In the meantime, we still have search and rescue helicopters. Sometimes they are close to a site, sometimes they are not. Most of these helicopters are used near coastal areas. I do not know the exact situation in Manitoba for search and rescue, but I do not think he is referring to the same situation that we are debating with the—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Preston Manning, Reform, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, these weak excuses which we have heard time and time again will not meet the safety needs of Canadians. They were let down again by this government which seems to put political decision making ahead of public safety time and time again.

When will the Prime Minister end this cabinet squabble and buy the search and rescue helicopters he has been promising for four years?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to note that the Leader of the Opposition was in favour of the $6 billion project proposed by the previous government. At the same time he was asking us to cut expenditures. That is exactly what we have done. That is why today we have the interest rates we do and that is why the economy has turned around. At that time we could not spend $6 billion on helicopters and at this time we cannot spend $6 billion on helicopters.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister will recall that in our budgets we at least allotted $2 billion more for the military and it would have those helicopters now if we were sitting over on that side. This government has been playing partisan politics with the search and rescue helicopters for so long now that civilian organizations have to go and do the job.

We salute the initiative taken by the Winnipeg Sun and the brave pilot who flew that mission, but Canadians should be able to count on their military. I ask the Prime Minister when he will stop playing games with public safety and give our military the equipment it needs to do the job.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, the opposition should stop playing politics with a very tragic event.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear.

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

A crew of nine search and rescue technicians spent over 15 hours in aircraft. They had to wait to be in a position to land because of the terrible weather conditions that existed, weather conditions that contributed to that crash. They have finally been able to land.

First they put out medical supplies and now they have been able to land. They are on their way to the hospital in Winnipeg with the survivors.

[Art Hanger, Reform, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot believe this minister and his lack of knowledge of what happened there today and last night. One plane took off with three injured yesterday and a Sun helicopter landed today. The military circled around. The minister said that they did not have the equipment to do the job properly. Nor did the military say that.

I ask this question of the Prime Minister. Were there any helicopters on the ground at CFB Winnipeg? If so, why were they not dispatched to go and do the job?

[Art Eggleton, Liberal, Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, my understanding about the private helicopter is that it was able to get underneath the ceiling. However, it did so at considerable risk. A risk assessment is something our people have to take at the time. It did not do it in that much of a different time from what it took our own Hercules to be able to land and to carry out the rescue mission for the vast majority of those people.

Transfer Payments

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the consensus of finance ministers from all provinces is clear. They have told the government it should begin by putting the money it took from the provinces back into social programs, health and education before spending right and left on new federal programs.

Now that the federal government is getting ready to free up surpluses, does the Minister of Finance, who reduced the deficit on the backs of the provinces, not find it indecent, even insulting, to now hand out gifts using a small part of the money it cut the provinces?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, when the country's financial situation forced us to make cuts, we made them at the federal level first, and gave the provinces a period of notice.

That having been said, as the prime minister announced in June and the Minister of Health and I confirmed two days ago, we have put $1.5 billion back into the Canada social transfer. This is one of the government's largest areas of spending. Furthermore, it shows the benefit of putting our fiscal house in order.

At the same time, my colleague in human resources development and I have invested over $850 million to help the most disadvantaged in the provinces.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

The Minister of Finance is such a generous fellow, Mr. Speaker. He tells us that, instead of cutting $48 billion, he is only cutting $42 billion, and then he wants us to think he is giving us $6 billion. Honestly.

The minister is the only one telling us that the surpluses belong to all Canadians. I therefore ask him why he does not come around to the consensus of all provincial finance ministers, who represent the people of Canada and of Quebec from coast to coast to coast, as they are so fond of saying. Should he not go along with this consensus rather than spending money in provincial areas of jurisdiction? That is what we are asking ourselves.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to tell the leader of the Bloc Quebecois that the cuts we were obliged to make in provincial transfer payments amount to half of the Province of Quebec's cuts in its municipalities' budgets and, second, that we gave a period of notice, a courtesy the Province of Quebec did not extend to its municipalities.

In addition, is the member saying that the provinces did not want us to help students with their debt load? He is mistaken. Is he saying that the provinces did not want us to help the children of disadvantaged families? He is mistaken.

We did exactly what Canadians from coast to coast to coast wanted us to do.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance should be a little more reasonable. All the provinces, all the provincial finance ministers—every single one of them, including the one from Quebec—were unanimous in asking him to give back a portion of the money he had taken from them instead of squandering it.

Does he not realize that his current position is terribly isolating for him and his government?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, the finance ministers of all the provinces agreed that the priorities set, that is to say children, poverty and health, are both their priorities and ours.

Similarly, all the provincial finance ministers agree that lowering interest rates to their lowest level in 20 years greatly helped them reduce their debt load.

[Michel Gauthier, Bloc, Roberval, QC]

Mr. Speaker, even though the Minister of Finance claims to have made poverty his priority, the truth is that he cut $11 billion from education, health and social assistance.

Here is my question for the minister. If today his government wants to pour money left and right into all sorts of programs, it is only to increase the federal government's visibility. They want cheques with little maple leaves in the corner to be circulating all over the place. That is what they want.

[The Speaker]

The Hon. Minister of Finance.

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, what federal program does the hon. member object to? Does he object to our helping the aeronautical industry in Montreal? Does he object to our helping children from broken families in Montreal? Does he object to our helping parents set money aside for their children's education? Does he object to our helping students with huge debt loads? Does he object to our investing in the future of Quebeckers and Canadians alike?

Social Programs

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the prime minister.

Yesterday, in an outburst of generosity, the Minister of Finance recognized that the budget surplus belonged to Canadians. Canadians have made sacrifices to create that surplus. Now they want what is owed to them.

Is the prime minister prepared to reinvest the people's money in health and education?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is yes.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians need more than a fiscal dividend from government. Canadians need a country with vision, unified by common purpose, unified by health care, educational opportunities for our young people, and freedom from the fear of poverty. These are the real guts of national unity.

When the Prime Minister meets the premiers, will he work with them to reinvest in medicare and our other social programs that make Canada Canada?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yes, this is exactly what we have done. We have reinvested $1.5 billion into the program that gives transfers to the provinces for health, post-secondary education and social programs because we have done better than predicted. That is why we have invested in innovation. That is why we have a program to help the children in poverty. The statement the hon. member made is the statement we have been making since the election.