Debates of Oct. 20th, 1998

Employment Insurance

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I can say one thing: we as the government have taken a balanced approach intended to help Canadian workers remain in the labour market as long as possible. This is why we set up programs outside the employment insurance fund, financed by the Minister of Finance in recent years, such as the transitional jobs fund and the youth employment strategy.

The employment insurance system serves those it is supposed to serve, and we are looking after the others with very good programs through the government's consolidated fund.

Taxation

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, last week the finance minister had the choice to give Canadians tax relief and he did not. Instead he blew two-thirds of the $9 billion surplus. He just spent it away.

Canadians were promised tax relief when the budget was balanced. Well, it is balanced now. Where is the tax relief? Canadians have had it with the empty promises. Where is it?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, in the last budget we introduced measures that will bring over the course of the next three years $7 billion worth of tax relief.

Let me check the numbers out: 1998-99, $1.5 billion; 1999-2000, $2.3 billion; the year 2000, $3.1 billion. The Reform Party voted against it.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister takes $10 out of people's pockets and gives them back 25 cents and expects them to be grateful. That is ridiculous.

The fact of the matter is since this finance minister came to power he has taxed back 155% of the wage gains Canadians have received. I think Canadians have been more than patient. I think the finance minister owes them big time.

Canadians need tax relief now. When is he going to fulfil his promise? When are they going to get real tax relief?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have just told the member where the tax relief is going to come in this year, next year and the year after.

Let us understand that the difference of opinion between the Reform Party and ourselves is not about reducing taxes. We want to reduce taxes. The difference is Reform wants to do it by cutting health care and by cutting equalization and we will not do that.

Health Care

[Yvan Loubier, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last week the Minister of Finance announced that all his budget surplus would be used to reduce Canada's debt.

How will the minister, who intends to go door to door during the next election campaign in Quebec, explain that not one penny will go to health, even though this is what Quebec's premier and all the other premiers are asking for?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, again, opposition parties are having a hard time doing their homework.

The member is asking us if we are prepared to transfer money for health. In the last budget, the 1998 budget, most of the $900 million transferred was for health. In 1999 and in the year 2000, it will be $1.5 million. In the year 2000, $1.5 million again will go to health. We have done that.

Trade

[Sophia Leung, Liberal, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister for International Trade.

Since 1975 Australia has prohibited the import of Canadian salmon due to bogus health concerns.

Can the minister tell us what is happening with Canada's complaint to the WTO on this matter?

[Sergio Marchi, Liberal, Minister for International Trade]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member from British Columbia for raising the question.

The position of the Government of Canada has been all along that access has been undeniably illegal. In June the WTO panel agreed with our position. Earlier today the panel once again rejected the appeal by the Australians and agreed with the Canadian position.

It just goes to show that not only do we have world class salmon, but rules in the WTO can work for Canada.

Employment Insurance

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the finance minister talks about the disposal of the EI funds as being some sort of public debate.

The fact is that the debate has already been held in the finance minister's back room. He has clearly shown in his budget that he has already used up all the EI surplus.

What kind of a line is he trying to hand Canadians? Why does he not come clean and tell Canadians he has already made up his mind, he has scooped the EI funds and Canadians are getting nothing back?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the hon. member to go back and read his party's platform where it states unequivocally that its recommendation was to use 100% of the notional EI account to offset the deficit?

He is now rising in the House and arguing against his party's policy. Is the same thing going to happen to Dick Harris that happened to Jim Hart?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

My colleagues, I would hope that we would not address each other by name and that that will be the last time it happens today.

The hon. member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, while the Liberal trained seals may clap on cue for the finance minister, the fact is that over the last five years 155% of any wage gains that Canadian working people have made has been taxed back by this finance minister. Canadians are in a net 55% deficit on any wage gain.

I ask the finance minister: Why does he not simply do the right thing, the thing he has promised but has not fulfilled, and promise today that some real tax breaks are going to come for hard working Canadians?

[Paul Martin, Liberal, Minister of Finance]

Mr. Speaker, I have already said that we have provided over $7 billion in tax breaks for Canadians.

What does the hon. member think the $3.5 billion the Reform Party wants to take out of health transfers to the provinces will do? What is that going to do to middle class Canadians who want decent hospital services? What is going to happen when $1 billion is taken out of equalization transfers for Saskatchewan and Manitoba? Are they not going to have to pay increased property taxes and increased provincial taxes?

What the Reform Party is recommending is that Canadian property owners and municipalities—

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, if there is one person who relies on employment insurance, it is definitely the Minister of Finance.

The minister of Human Resources Development is manipulating employment insurance figures. With respect to the number of recipients, he does not take into account those left behind by the system: the long term unemployed, unemployed independent workers and a number of workers who had to quit their jobs.

In all, those who no longer qualify for benefits now account for 62% of the unemployed. Why does the minister deny the reality most unemployed Canadians are facing?

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to draw to the hon. member's attention the fact that the classes of unemployed he just referred to were never covered by the employment insurance system in Canada. The long term unemployed were not covered previously. The system never applied to individuals who have never worked.

The change is that our government established programs like the transitional jobs fund and the youth employment strategy precisely to help those not covered by the employment insurance system to enter the labour force and contribute to society, because that is what people want.

[Angela Vautour, NDP, Beauséjour—Petitcodiac, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to say to the minister that, knowing the employment insurance system, his figures are wrong. What he is saying is absolutely wrong.

The number of unemployed who receive benefits dropped from 83% to 38% in nine years. One half of this drop is the result of government reforms, while the other half is due to the Liberals' inability to adjust employment insurance to the new realities of the labour market. With a $20 billion surplus in the EI account, what is the minister waiting for to improve access to benefits?

The figures quoted in the House today are wrong. Sixty-two percent of the unemployed do not qualify for employment insurance benefits.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, 78% of the Canadian labour force—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister for Human Resources Development.

[Pierre Pettigrew, Liberal, Papineau—Saint-Denis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that, according to the data confirmed yesterday and released by my department, 78% of Canadians who have a connection with the labour force and who lost their jobs for valid reasons are covered under the employment insurance system.

Those who are not covered by the system—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That is wrong.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.