Debates of June 9th, 1998

Business Of The House

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Mr. Speaker, there is a point of order here. The member insists on using language which demeans other members of parliament and that is against the standing orders.

[The Deputy Speaker]

If the hon. member uses unparliamentary language, I am sure the member for Elk Island will draw it to the attention of the Chair, if the Chair does not pick up on it himself. The Chair tries to ensure that the words used in debate are within the rules. So far, the Chair has not heard words that are in and of themselves unparliamentary from the hon. member for Bourassa.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

There is a short fuse, Mr. Speaker.

When the truth hurts, this is what happens. Last evening, they tried to pull a fast one on us. This morning, we begin to see the weakness of their arguments and realize that they just wanted to be in the news again.

But Canadians will not be fooled. They realize what is going on and they showed it again last week in the polls. The Liberal Party of Canada has the support of 55% of Canadians, compared to 12% for the Reform Party and 15% for the Conservative Party. Even without a leader, the Conservatives are more popular than the Reformers. This may be why the Reform Party is trying to conclude other sorts of alliances. They committed adultery and gave birth to the NDP. Look at the results.

The people of Bourassa are proud of their Liberal member in this House.

They are proud to see that the Quebec caucus is working like crazy for its people, while the members of the opposition are not taking their role seriously, they whine, they clown around and they put on sombreros in protest against the Senate. Some people here are managing the country and working for the public.

They can make all the fuss they want. They can whine, try to get themselves on camera all they like. People are not going to be fooled. The opposition will never form the government simply because it is again showing itself to be a band of clowns. That is today's reality. Perhaps they will make the evening news today or tomorrow, perhaps they will say all sorts of stupid things—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, they are getting upset.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Surely, the calling of hon. members in this House a bunch of clowns has to be unparliamentary language. I would ask the member to withdraw that statement.

[The Deputy Speaker]

With great respect to the hon. member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley, I do not believe there is a precedent saying that the expression “a bunch of clowns” is unparliamentary. It is somewhat unrestrained. As your Speaker, at times when I have been in the House I have heard the expression used in relation to different groups. I will not rule it unparliamentary.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we are beginning to understand them. If the word “clown” is not unparliamentary, I will say it again. I think they are going to create the order of clown, the deform party circus. Mixing the Bloc Quebecois and the Reform Party makes the deform party.

This band of clowns goes in for props. They really like props, but when it comes to basics, to serious business, the reason is clear why the Liberal Party was put in power. It is simply for that. They can make all the fuss they like, trot out their music, wander about in sombreros, make blunders and even try to stick the system—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

—but people will not be fooled. We have a government to be proud of.

They tried to put one over on us, but the people of Bourassa, like the people in all the ridings that elected Liberal members are proud and are saying “At least you do not go off with the chairs and you do not say stupid things. You are working for the public good”.

I am proud to describe all we have done, including create new jobs and, as was mentioned yesterday, an agreement to clean up the St. Lawrence. In terms of the environment, we have done specific things. In terms of finance, we have shown our mettle, our stature and our knowledge of handling public funds.

The most demeaning thing in politics is to act like a clown. The most demeaning thing in politics is to watch the opposition members fussing about and then to have them say to us “Look, there is no Liberal member in the House”.

When they try to hurt us, they are hurting themselves, because now we can talk about committees, such as the Standing Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development, the Standing Committee on Finance, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade, the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, and the Standing Committee on Health.

Members want numbers. I will give them numbers. There are five members from the Liberal Party, two from the Reform Party, three from the Bloc Quebecois, one from the New Democratic Party and one from the Conservative Party. Where are the others?

On the Standing Committee on Finance, there are six members from the Liberal Party, one from the Reform Party, none from the Bloc Quebecois, one from the New Democratic Party and one from the Conservative Party.

The Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Trade has eight members from the Liberal Party, one from the Reform Party, three from the Bloc Quebecois, none from the New Democratic Party and none from the Conservative Party.

As for the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights—and justice is important, although they are still pulling their holier than thou routine here—it has eight members from the Liberal Party, one from the Reform Party, one from the Bloc Quebecois, none from the New Democratic Party and none from the Conservative Party.

[Dick Harris, Reform, Prince George—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. If the hon. member is going to quote numbers, he should at least quote them accurately. As a matter of fact the Reform Party has three—

[The Deputy Speaker]

I am afraid disputes as to the accuracy of the hon. member's remarks cannot constitute a point of order. The member for Prince George—Bulkley Valley may want to ask a question or make a comment during the time provided and dispute his figures, but that is a matter for debate.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I continue, Mr. Speaker. We are in no rush. Members of the official opposition want to speak at length. There is no rush, we will take our time. While members opposite are parading around in sombreros and playing the clown, we are working.

The Standing Committee on Health has eight members from the Liberal Party, one from the Reform Party, none from the Bloc Quebecois, one from the NDP, and one from the Conservative Party. Who is doing the work?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Who is doing their job? Who is actively looking out for the public's interests? The figures are there. They can all rise in the House and say that they want to debate, that it is terrible, that they have been silenced. The fact is that members must have something to say and when they say it, it must be sensible.

But no, we have this little procedural tussle. When we have an international, local, provincial and regional role to play, and opposition members are not even present on parliamentary committees, we have to wonder.

I am clearly proud to be a member of this party. I am proud to be a member of this government, because we know where the priorities lie. We know where the work needs to be done, and we know that a member's role—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

They are whining again. Next we know, they will be in tears.

The other day, I heard someone say that backbenchers were unhappy in this place. That is nonsense. Sheer nonsense.

Not only are we happy to be members of this government, but together with this government we participate in taking important stands in the interest of the public, while these anti-francophone people are not interested in anything besides their own little power plays and ensuring that their leader can keep going for another week.

We look after the public interest. We work for the public interest. We, on this side, whether francophones or anglophones, are working for all Canadians and treating everyone on an equal basis.

What am I hearing from the Reform Party? When they are not clowning around in sombreros, what do they do? They put francophones down. They are anti-francophone. We, on the other hand, are taking our responsibilities.

Instead of continually standing up in this House with their petty rhetoric, their hogwash, their whining and their strings of petty points of order, which are even more trivial, they should really shut up, because the more they talk, the more they damage their case.

As a member of the Liberal Party, that suits me just fine; the more they talk, the better we fare in the polls. That is how we had a member elected in British Columbia. There was a reason for that. People are not stupid. While they were clowning around, parading in sombreros, while they were giving us their hogwash, we were working, and the people took notice.

What was the ultimate test? While Reformers were clowning around in sombreros, we demonstrated to the public that we were looking after the best interest of the country and its people properly. Do members want proof? The only time the Reform Party could have demonstrated they were right, we got a Liberal candidate elected in British Columbia. This just goes to show what the real, the ultimate test is, where the public can show how satisfied or dissatisfied it is.

The truth hurts. The facts speak for themselves. I am proud to be a member of this government. People need not worry, we are working. They have tried to lead people to believe that we are not here to do our job. That is b.s., that is not true. We are working.

We do committee work, we work in our ridings, we make announcements left and right, we travel thousands of kilometres to serve the public. We are doing our work in this House. Just because some barnacle comes along two minutes before the adjournment to try to play procedural games, nobody is going to take away the value I attach to this institution.

The more Reformers run down the institution, the more harm they are doing to themselves. If they want to be effective, instead of saying dumb things, instead of playing the clown, going around in sombreros, they should act sensibly and talk sensibly.

It is not a matter of how much time there is for speaking, but one of speaking when one has something to say. This can be done in a restrained and precise manner. The day Reformers figure this out, they will understand what the role of a real member is. Respecting the institution requires self-respect.

Judging by what I have seen this morning, opposition members ought to be ashamed of themselves. This is not a great day for the institution, because once again, if the opposition is weak, it is because the opposition is weak.

[The Deputy Speaker]

As predicted, we have a lot of interest in questions and comments. I suggest we will do this in one minute segments and we will get five in.

[Werner Schmidt, Reform, Kelowna, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the closing comments were said accurately and succinctly.

We have just witnessed what one speech coach gave to an aspiring speaker. The speech had been developed and the points had been developed reasonably well until very close to the middle of the speech. Then there was a point that really did not relate to the rest of the speech and was not developed very strongly. The coach said to the young aspiring speaker to shout like crazy at that point because the point is weak. That is what we just heard, a shouting diatribe of intemperate railing filled with inaccurate facts and unwarranted attacks on individual members.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, if the shoe fits, let him wear it. They have been spouting nonsense since the sitting opened this morning. Playing the clown, dancing about in sombreros, none of this is very serious. Members must pay attention. Not only am I speaking out loudly, but my words also have a bite to them. Not only am I proud of my words, they are also inspired by the nonsense and hypocrisy I have seen across the way.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, today in the circus ring we heard the clown speak. He referred to committees and to pride in his party. I would like to point out that we in the Conservative Party number only 20, not 156.

Something happened here yesterday. There was not one member of the government in the House for debate on a motion. That is unbelievable, when there are 156 of them. I am not afraid to bite, and I am not afraid of being bitten back.

The hon. member is proud of his government and of his committees. When I was appointed to the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development, I tabled a motion for examination of the employment insurance reform, which also impacts upon the hon. member's riding. The committee voted it down. Is he proud of that? Just recently, the members of his party voted against compensating some of the victims of hepatitis C. Is he proud of his government for that?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, not only am I proud, but I am honoured to be part of this government. If there are only 20 Conservative members and 16 committees, it means one Conservative per committee. If the member is present and does his job, I have no comment.

Why is he whining? He is no clown and he is not wearing a sombrero like the Reform members. But if the options frustrate him, he should perhaps remember that we had the first Liberal majority government in 1993 because we got rid of the Conservatives.

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to make a comment and to ask my colleague from Bourassa a question.

I think the hon. member raises some very important points. This is my first term as a member of parliament.

It is my first mandate as an elected official to the House of Commons. One of the first things I learned here is that the work of a parliamentarian takes place in the House and it also takes place in the committees. The hon. member for Bourassa made an excellent point when he gave out the numbers as to the permanent committees of the House that were sitting this morning and who was actually there. I think the point was very well taken.

When the hon. member says:

“The deform party is fond of props”, I must say he—

[The Deputy Speaker]

Order, please. I am sorry, but I indicated there would be only a minute for each question and comment.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague.

I will simply say, as the public has seen and understood today, that, when Reform members spit it lands on their noses. By trying to demean the institution, the Reformers have once again demeaned themselves. After the whole business of the clowns and the sombreros, we were given another circus performance today.