Debates of Oct. 21st, 1999

Fisheries

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, just as in the House the Reform represents a minority view on Nisga'a, across Canada it also represents a minority view on Nisga'a.

Reform has been against every aboriginal initiative that has come forward in the House. Canadians know exactly what Reform stands for. That is why it is moving below 10%.

[John Cummins, Reform, Delta—South Richmond, BC]

Mr. Speaker, that is small comfort to the Nova Scotia lobster fishermen.

Uncertainty directly related to the Nisga'a treaty is hurting the economy of northwestern British Columbia. Concerns from loggers and fishermen were ignored. We now see the same lack of investor confidence resulting from the handling of treaty issues on the east coast, where a large Yarmouth based lobster buyer cannot obtain operating funds for this year because of uncertainty over the Marshall decision.

Why is the government proceeding with a policy that is destroying investor confidence and killing jobs in the fisheries on both coasts?

[Herb Dhaliwal, Liberal, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, we have a federal representative who is trying to create certainty. If the hon. member clearly wants certainty, then he should be voting for the Nisga'a agreement because that is what will create certainty. Everybody will know what the rules are.

Audiovisual Productions

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, last Tuesday, the Minister of Canadian Heritage advised the House that there would be a meeting today between members of the MUC police, officials from the departments of National Revenue and Canadian Heritage, and representatives of the RCMP.

If she has asked the RCMP to conduct another investigation, are we to understand that she has decided that it should be Canada-wide?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, I did not ask the RCMP to conduct another investigation. I asked the RCMP to conduct an investigation.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there was an investigation done between 1995 and 1997. There was also one done by the MUC police.

I wonder whether she should not, in fact, have consulted and studied this investigation between 1995 and 1997, and had the courage to take action so that such practices did not recur. She did nothing.

Can she explain why she did nothing following the serious allegations in the 1995 to 1997 investigation, and why she is now requesting that the same work be done again, even though it has already been done by the MUC?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday, Monday and last week, the Bloc Quebecois made serious allegations. I felt it was my responsibility to respond to those allegations, and the best way of getting at the truth of the matter was to turn to the RCMP.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, since the beginning of this case, the Minister of Canadian Heritage has been accusing us of inventing problems and starting rumors, as did Mr. Macerola from Telefilm Canada, who said, somewhat prematurely, that the whole issue was an urban legend.

My question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage. Will the minister admit that since Friday, when she claimed not to know anything about this issue, she has learned, thanks to the Bloc Quebecois, that there are at least four cases of people whose names were used, that other producers might be implicated, and that, for the time being, this whole thing only involves Telefilm's Montreal component?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member made allegations on Friday. Today, he is making more allegations. Again, I would ask him to contact the RCMP to inform them of his allegations.

[Stéphane Bergeron, Bloc, Verchères, QC]

Mr. Speaker, how could the minister tell us that she found out about the whole issue of Friday, considering that an investigation took place in 1997, that shocking statements were made early in the fall by some prominent figures from that sector, that the Quebec Minister of Culture decided to order an investigation through SODEC to shed light on this issue, and that her deputy minister had been aware of the issue for two or three days?

Is the minister being kept in the dark by her officials, or is she simply refusing to assume her responsibilities?

[Sheila Copps, Liberal, Minister of Canadian Heritage]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is the one who is making allegations. He did so on Friday, then on Monday, and again on Tuesday.

I asked him to contact the RCMP about his allegations, and I am asking him to do so again today. If he has allegations to make, then he should go directly to the RCMP, which is there to investigate.

Canadian Farmers

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food.

Farm families are facing the worst crisis since the great depression and still the government stalls. It is not just farmers who are affected; it is suppliers, equipment manufacturers and dealers who are being forced to lay off workers. Everybody is holding their breath waiting for the minister to respond.

When will the minister stop stalling? When will this minister end the anguish and introduce a decent farm aid package?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, this government started to act nearly a year ago when we contributed $900 million before the budget was introduced last year. That is being used by producers. It will all be used. It will also be added to by $600 million from the provinces. We made changes to the net income stabilization account which made another $121 million available across Canada. There is still more money in the net income stabilization account that has been triggered by farmers as well. I am encouraged by the fact that they are now using that account.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about an adequate response. We are talking about a decent response. No one is buying the minister's line. No one believes that this government has responded adequately to this crisis.

How many farms will go under? How many small businesses will fail? How many families will be driven off their farms before this government puts aside its arrogance and puts forward the kind of farm aid that will save our family farms?

[Lyle Vanclief, Liberal, Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food]

Mr. Speaker, over $1.5 billion is certainly a significant amount of money. Unfortunately, there are always limits to resources. We are trying to find every way, shape and form that we can to help.

We have made changes to the AIDA program. We have made additions to the AIDA program. We continue to do all we possibly can within the limit of the resources that are available.

Airline Industry

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Industry.

Obviously there is now a power struggle between the Minister of Industry and the Minister of Transport. The Minister of Transport is proposing legislation to let him have a final say in all Competition Bureau tribunal reports.

I want the Minister of Industry, on behalf of consumers, to assure the House that no power will be transferred to the Minister of Transport on airline merger issues.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member should read the Canada Transportation Act because he will see that the use of section 47 is done so only with the authority of not only the Minister of Transport, but the Minister of Industry.

My colleague, the Minister of Industry, and I have worked on this file in concert from the beginning. We continue to do so. The section 47 process that we brought forward on August 13 is working because we now have private sector proposals that allow the restructuring of the airline industry.

[Bill Casey, Progressive Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the minister has only one answer for every question and it is the wrong one.

I want to read to the House a tribunal report dated 1993. If the minister has the final say in future reports, we will never hear words like these. The tribunal report states that if Canadian Airlines is forced to merge with Air Canada, the tribunal finds that competition in domestic airline markets will likely be substantially lessened. It goes on to say that charter carriers cannot compensate for Canadian's removal.

It is absolutely unacceptable for the Minister of Transport to now be able to doctor up Competition Bureau reports.

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, it is really quite odd that the hon. member is quoting from past reports of the bureau, which certainly were very reflective of the situation at the time.

However, the bureau is now working on a new report, which will be made available to me very shortly and will be made public. It will help us in the restructuring process. These are the guidelines being issued by the bureau under the auspices of section 47 of the Canada Transport Act.

Aboriginal Affairs

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, non-Nisga'a residents who live on Nisga'a land will have no right to vote for the government but they will be subject to Nisga'a laws and taxation. Why is the Liberal government endorsing taxation without representation?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, this is not about the Nisga'a people leaving Canada. It is about the Nisga'a people entering Canada.

One of the most important aspects of the treaty is that all non-Nisga'a will still be Canadian citizens and will still be able to vote for their MLA and their member of parliament. They will be able to participate on all the boards, including the education board and the health council of the Nisga'a people. They will have better representation than they are getting from the Reform Party.

[Derrek Konrad, Reform, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Speaker, non-Nisga'a will soon have to send their tax dollars to their local government for which they have no right to vote. I know the government does not care about taxpayers but I never thought that it would go as far as denying taxpayers the right to vote.

Why is the government denying non-Nisga'a residents the right to vote for the government that levies their taxes?

[Bob Nault, Liberal, Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development]

Mr. Speaker, I want to encourage Reform Party members. As we get into the debate, it will be very important for them to read the treaty. They should also ask us for a briefing, which will be very helpful.

As we talk about representation, I will give the Reform Party members an example of what representation means to the Nisga'a people. The member representing the Nisga'a and the people of the Nass Valley has 25 first nations. Out of those 25 first nations, 17 have not seen their member of parliament in six years.

Air Transportation

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Beauport—Montmorency—Orléans, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as far as the future of air travel in Canada goes, there are two offers on the table: one a legal one from Air Canada, and the other an illegal one from Onex, which would require the law to be changed before it could be entertained.

My question is for the Minister of Transport. Are we to understand from the statement made by the Prime Minister on Monday that it is up to Air Canada's shareholders to decide, and that his government is prepared to change the law if Air Canada's shareholders chose to accept the Onex offer?

[David Collenette, Liberal, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, obviously we have two offers. It is up to the Air Canada shareholders to decide which is best for them. After, when the government has received a conditional agreement, we shall see whether the offer is in keeping with the government's principles. In our opinion, the process is working, and working fine.