Debates of Feb. 8th, 2000

Bill C-20

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the party leader and all his troops, who have thrown the worst words in the dictionary in my direction, who have used terms such as traitor and sell-out to describe French-speaking Quebecers sitting in this House, should mothball some of the vocabulary they use in their speeches.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know when I have used such terms. If he can give examples, let him do so. And I did not understand the end of his reply. It was incomprehensible.

I wonder if the Prime Minister could explain to the House why he is refusing to meet with these groups when he consults them on other projects, as he did with the prebudget meetings for instance.

Why is he refusing to meet with these groups, which have something to say and which represent hundreds of thousands of Quebecers? Why is he so scornful of them? That is the question. We would like an explanation.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, a committee will hold hearings and, if they wish to make presentations before it, they may do so like any other group. The committee will hold hearings and they may attend. They have never been told that they could not attend.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[An hon. member]

It is up to the committee to decide.

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Saint-Maurice, QC]

It is up to the committee to decide. I said that the committee would be sitting in Ottawa because the bill applies to all provinces and, if a travelling committee is required, it will have to go to all provinces, and we do not want to waste too much of the House's time on this. We want to move ahead as quickly as possible.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we would really like to understand what the Prime Minister has just said.

Is he going to encourage the groups to participate, authorize the committee to travel? Is this what the Liberal majority on the committee is going to propose that the committee should do?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is up to the committee to decide whom it will hear. The hon. member has a great deal of experience and already knows how committees operate.

The committee was selected a little earlier today by the House Committee on Procedure and House Affairs, which will report tomorrow. When the committee is subsequently informed of the orders of the House, that is of second reading, it will meet to select witnesses. That is how it will be done.

[Daniel Turp, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat my question to the Prime Minister, that same Prime Minister who, when the linguistic school boards were being debated in the House in 1997, stated, and I quote “Everyone's point of view must be heard, however, for this is a democracy”.

Does the Prime Minister wish the groups to be heard by the committee? Does he want this committee to travel?

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, if I am not mistaken, the hon. member has just referred to a quote made by himself in the past. It is interesting that the Bloc Quebecois members use quotations when it suits them, but when it does not suit them, they do the opposite. This does not surprise me.

Human Resources Development

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister made it clear both in the House and outside of it that detailed documentation has been compiled riding by riding for all HRDC grants and contributions for every member of parliament.

Canadians have a right to that information. Will the Prime Minister agree to table that documentation for all 301 ridings?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, we have these documents and have looked at some files. I asked them to look into the files of my riding because I was interested. We looked in members' files and they were all asking for money from the department. Very often we agreed when they had a good case. That is why this program exists.

We are not offended when members of parliament make recommendations. What we are offended by is when they double-talk and when they send letters to the minister asking for money and then complain in the House of Commons because they do not want to receive the money.

[Alexa McDonough, NDP, Halifax, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that the Prime Minister has the information. It is clear that the House leader has the information. It is not so clear that the HRDC minister has the information. I think she gets it on a need to know basis.

Canadians have a right to that information. If the Prime Minister will not agree to release the documentation, then we need an independent public inquiry to get to the bottom of this. Will the Prime Minister today agree to the appointment of an independent public inquiry?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, yes, we have some information for the House of Commons. I do not know why the hon. member is afraid that I could get up and cite some case in her riding. We have the right to do that. This is public information and she is afraid that we will use it. She could put a question on the Order Paper and we will give her the information.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, what are truly missing here are iron clad assurances that the government will behave responsibly with taxpayers' money.

Given the potential for criminal activity in this matter and a history of such within HRDC, will the solicitor general call on his commissioner today to launch a full and complete investigation to clear the air?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, let me review again what has transpired. I, as the Minister of Human Resources Development Canada, received the report on an internal audit. I was not happy with the results of that report.

I insisted on a strong management response that includes a six point plan that has been reviewed with the auditor general, who himself says “In our opinion the proposed approach represents a thorough plan for corrective action to address the immediate control problems that were identified”.

We will work with the auditor general to implement this plan.

[Peter MacKay, Progressive Conservative, Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough, NS]

Mr. Speaker, while the Prime Minister engages in the age old tactic of accuse the accuser, aided by the co-driver of the getaway car, the government House leader, Canadians are waiting for answers.

What is missing is some semblance of accountability. We know that money went missing. We know that money went from government coffers to Liberal backers, who turned around and made significant contributions to the government. How can the public have faith in this system that is so politically tainted and advantageous to the government?

Will the minister call for a full, independent financial audit of her department?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I said that this is an audit by the department.

I also said yesterday that previously the auditor general could report only once a year. Now he can report four times a year. We want all of these cases to be known as quickly as possible so that we can remedy the situation as quickly as possible.

We want the public money to be well administered and all moneys disbursed to the programs they were intended to serve. That is exactly what we are doing and what we will keep doing.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, another day, another example of how rotten to the core this government has become.

The latest rip-off is that the government sent $200,000 to a water bottling company in the Indian affairs minister's riding. Today that company is bankrupt and the money is all gone.

In the history of the country there has never been a more incompetent and neglectful minister than the Minister of Human Resources Development. Never.

When will that minister resign?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is holier than thou all the time.

Is he opposed because the government is giving money to the Medicine Hat family YMCA, the Medicine Hat Rehabilitation Council and the Taber and District Community Adult Learning Council? We are doing that for his riding, as we do for the riding of every member of parliament.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, what I am opposed to is stupid government like we are getting from this government and this Prime Minister.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please. I would prefer if we stayed away from terms like stupid on a day like this.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that is a challenge.

The minister mismanaged $1 billion, and then she tried to cover it up. Now she is trying to weasel out of her responsibilities. When will she resign?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, again, $1 billion has not disappeared. We know where it is. The cheques to every organization and individual indicate where the money has gone.

I am taking my responsibility as minister. I received the information. I made it public. We are implementing a very cohesive plan. This problem will be fixed.