Debates of Feb. 8th, 2000

Human Resources Development

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I say to the Minister of Human Resources Development that her response “there is no money missing—we've seen the cancelled cheques”, is a ridiculous response.

How does the minister justify $900,000 on the TJF list given to Anvil Range with no jobs created; the $90,000 given to the Saskatchewan Dutch Elm Disease, which sounds like a Liberal disease, with zero jobs created; and the $72,000 given to Clifford Smith Trucking with zero jobs created? And on the list goes. How does she justify tax dollars being used for that kind of job creation?

This is job creation for Liberal candidates. It is about Liberal vote gathering. The jig is up. Instead of justifying millions of dollars for zero jobs created, why does she not create a job opening and simply resign?

[The Speaker]

Concerning the question as it was stated, I think the hon. member was seeking information about a very specific project. I will permit the question but the hon. member should know that those specific questions are out of many hundreds or thousands of folders. They are pretty specific. I wonder if he can make them a little more general.

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I justify the moneys invested in the transitional jobs fund because it created 30,000 jobs for Canadians who were not working before.

I justify the transitional jobs fund because it created work in communities right across this country: in the ridings of 25 Reform members, $20 million invested; in the ridings of 32 Bloc members, $57 million invested; and in the ridings of 12 NDP.

[Maurice Vellacott, Reform, Wanuskewin, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the transitional jobs fund list indicates 32 projects, with $14 million doled out, produced zero jobs. This is not about job creation. It is about sprinkling taxpayer dollars like pixie dust.

Why will the human resources minister not fess up to this scandalous absconding of tax dollars and simply resign?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, in my job as minister, I have to look at these programs to determine if they are indeed making a difference.

The hon. member can pick and choose the projects that he wants but there are over 60,000 of them that are part of the last three years' investments.

I can tell the House that overall our performance reports are good. When we are looking at the transitional jobs fund, we are talking about 30,000 men and women who have depended on this fund to have the dignity of a job.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister criticized opposition members who are following the rules on job development programs. Now the Prime Minister is refusing to disclose information that his House leader clearly is spoon-feeding him with.

New Democrats support job creation. We support student employment programs. What we do not support is the Liberals making a mockery of these programs through gross mismanagement. We do not support programs being approved for political purposes and withholding information from members and the public.

Will the Prime Minister table all of the information and—

[The Speaker]

The hon. Minister of Human Resources Development.

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, does the hon. member think that the $37 million approved in her riding between 1997 and now were for political purposes?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister has all the information concerning the transitional jobs fund, for each and every riding. In fact, this information is currently on the desk of the leader of the government in the House.

Canadians are entitled to that information. Is the Prime Minister prepared to table today, in this House, all the information contained in his magic book?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time I hear members complain about the fact that the government is too well-informed.

We are doing our job. Perhaps the hon. member feels left out. I do not have anything about his riding, but now I am interested in finding something about it.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, we heard the minister today and on previous days bragging about the six point plan.

Is the minister telling us that a department that handles 30,000 cases and billions of dollars in taxpayers' money has no plan before October 5?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure what the hon. member's point is. Indeed, as I have presented to this House, as minister I received the information from an internal audit. It said that we can do a much better job in administering our grants and contributions.

I have taken it seriously. The department has made it a priority. We made the report public.

I say again, we will fix this problem.

[Jean Dubé, Progressive Conservative, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, a spot check of 70 grants found $27 million made its way to donors of the governing party. In the riding of Tobique—Mactaquac, Barrette Diversified Corporation received a TJF grant of over $16,000 and gave back half that grant to the governing party in donations.

Was this what the government intended to do when it set up this slush fund in the first place?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, if he is making a link and a criminal accusation then he should make it. I have a member of parliament who is complaining but he has bragged in his householder that the Liberal government has invested money for job creation in his riding. He talked about 542 jobs being created by these programs.

We made a mistake helping his people. We will tell his electorate in the next election.

Immigration

[Rose-Marie Ur, Liberal, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the recent arrests of illegal migrants at Sarnia, Walpole Island and Windsor point to the need for strengthened laws.

Will the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration update the House and all Canadians as to how she proposes to solve this problem? I agree, we need to show the world that yes, we are a humane and compassionate country, but that we will not be taken advantage of or be a dumping ground for criminal activity. What is the minister's plan for action?

[Elinor Caplan, Liberal, Minister of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member and I share her concerns. In fact, we have zero tolerance policy when it comes to foreign nationals who commit serious crimes in Canada. Foreign nationals who have committed crimes outside of Canada are inadmissible to Canada. Further, the public safety of Canadians is our number one priority.

Having said that, the refugee determination system is about saving lives. Canada is an open and compassionate society. Yes, at the present time we are reviewing our legislation and our regulations to determine that it is appropriate to meet these challenges.

Human Resources Development

[Leon Benoit, Reform, Lakeland, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the human resources minister pretends she is compassionate. However, compassion is when we recognize that Canadians are dying in hospital waiting lines and we do something about it. Compassion is when we recognize that families are being strangled by excessive taxation and that we be as prudent as possible with their hard-earned tax dollars. Cold-heartedness is when we blow a billion bucks and we could not care less.

Is it that the human resources minister is cold-hearted or is it that she just does not care?

[Jane Stewart, Liberal, Minister of Human Resources Development]

Mr. Speaker, I reject the premise of the hon. member's question. As I listen to the questions from that side of the House through the course of the day, I just want to say that making change is a difficult thing to do. Asking questions about change is pretty easy. It reminds me of a phrase we use back in my town in Brant County, where they say “dogs bark at cars but dogs can't drive”.

[Stéphan Tremblay, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister for International Trade is taking cover to avoid answering the questions of parliamentarians on the problems affecting the Department of Human Resources Development, for which he was responsible during a long time.

Will the minister do the honorable thing and agree to testify before the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development regarding the bungling at Human Resources Canada, particularly since the chair and the vice-chair of the committee, who are both fellow Liberals, said that they may well call the minister to testify?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh.

[The Speaker]

Order, please.

[Don Boudria, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the insults hurled by members opposite at the Minister for International Trade are not justified.

As for the substance of the question, the hon. member knows full well, as I do and as all members do, that not only is the question out of order, so is what he is asking.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, Winnipeg Centre is the third poorest riding in the country, yet we were told that we did not qualify for one cent of transitional jobs fund money.

Much wealthier ridings, like the one represented by the minister of HRDC, qualify for all kinds of TJF money even though her unemployment rate is half that of Winnipeg Centre. It is no wonder Canadians are cynical. It is no wonder they are calling the TJF the Liberal slush fund.

How is it that my riding at 13.7% unemployment qualifies for nothing and the minister's own riding at 7.6% gets millions and millions of dollars of transitional jobs fund money?

[Jean Chrétien, Liberal, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I have a list here and he is the one who has received the most of all members of parliament. I am happy that he wants more.

They cannot have it both ways, complaining that they want more and complaining at the same time that the program is no good.

[André Bachand, Progressive Conservative, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in all this business about Human Resources Development Canada, we know that 50% of program spending was during the 1997 election campaign. We know that there was influence peddling involved, and that one person was even convicted.

This morning, the members for Pictou—Antigonish—Guysborough and Madawaska—Restigouche met with people from the RCMP in order to have an in-depth investigation carried out on various allegations.

Could the solicitor general do what we did this morning, that is ask the RCMP to carry out a full investigation so as to save the innocent and charge the guilty?