Debates of Feb. 8th, 2000

Supply

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

It is not unusual for members of the Reform Party to say no because they do not listen to ordinary people. They do not care about ordinary people. They are a non-caring party, that is for sure. It is obvious in their remarks today. Talk about a culture of neglect. The party opposite neglects ordinary people. The fact of the matter is that they definitely do not care. This program was put in place to create jobs and it in fact has done that. The minister—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I have to interrupt the member because we have a lot of questions but not a lot of time. One minute for the response, please. I am sure that the hon. member for Medicine Hat can divine a question out of that.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, that was certainly a content based question. Let me respond to what my colleague has said.

The fact is that the internal audit did find $1 billion worth of programs that were not properly accounted for. In fact there were many, many examples where money went to all kinds of projects where not a single job was created, not one job.

That sets aside whether or not jobs would have been created if that money had been left in taxpayers' pockets in the first place. We argue that a dollar left in the taxpayers' pockets is far more effective than a dollar in the hands of a bureaucrat or a politician, and my friend just made that case for me.

[Marlene Catterall, Liberal, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with only one thing that has been said in the debate today and that is that the most important thing we do as parliamentarians is to be accountable and responsible for Canadians when it comes to the use of their money. What I find astonishing from the opposition today is the complete lack of recognition that the government has any role in working for the public good of the people of Canada.

Perhaps the members opposite are in the dark about what is happening in their ridings. I personally am not. I personally visit every project in my riding that gets funding from the Government of Canada, so I know exactly who these projects are hiring. I know exactly what kind of training they are providing and I know exactly what successes they are achieving.

As examples hundreds of new Canadians are being trained on how to get a job in Canada and on what job skills are required. There are people being trained for industry and for available jobs. There are students getting work during the summer that will allow them to return to university. These are people I know in my—

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. McClelland)]

I am sorry but I need to interrupt. We will see if we can get a question out of that for the hon. member for Medicine Hat.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I think that is the problem. A lot of these politicians do go and see who is getting hired. In fact that is our criticism. We do not think politicians should be involved in making those decisions.

If we are going to have a program like that, and I sure do not believe we should, the last thing we want is politicians interfering with it. Can the member not see that there is all kinds of room for abuse? Did she not pay attention when we grilled the Prime Minister about what went on in his riding? That was shameful. We see millions of dollars wasted, millions of dollars which should be used for things that are good going to political things. We do not believe that is a proper use of taxpayers' money.

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Haldimand—Norfolk—Brant, ON]

Mr. Speaker, one of the ways in which government makes sure the money it spends is well spent is to involve the local people. The hon. member asked why people in Ottawa should be making these decisions. He may not be aware but in ridings such as mine it is actually the local people who come together in various fashions and who sit down and work with the Canada Employment Centre offices to make sure that money goes into the area specifically where it is needed most.

In a lot of areas, in particular in an area like southwestern Ontario, there are pockets of high unemployment. That is really where we want those moneys to be directed.

[An hon. member]

Like Brant?

[Bob Speller, Liberal, Haldimand—Norfolk—Brant, ON]

Yes, exactly like Brant. In Brant particularly there are pockets where the unemployment rates are much higher than 12%. That is why this program was made, to make sure—

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

Order, please. I am afraid there is no more time. There are barely a few seconds for the hon. member for Medicine Hat.

[Monte Solberg, Reform, Medicine Hat, AB]

Madam Speaker, there is a 6% unemployment rate in Brant and my friend across the way is defending pouring money in when the standard is 12%. Obviously that is the minister feather bedding her own riding.

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Waterloo—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to offer my comments on this very misguided Reform opposition motion which we are debating today. I find it quite astonishing that some members, especially those of the Reform Party, would claim that the government is trying to hide something here when it was the minister herself who made the internal audit known to the public.

I heard the hon. member for Medicine Hat talk about pathetic. What is pathetic is what the Reform Party and others are trying to do in this debate, which is to misrepresent the facts to the extent they are. It is absolutely shameful but it is so typical of the pathetic Reform Party. What it is good at—

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. It is clearly in the parliamentary rules that one cannot charge a member with misrepresenting the facts. It is against the standing orders and I would ask you to ask the member—

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

I am sure that if the hon. member said anything that was questionable he will correct it right away.

[Lynn Myers, Liberal, Waterloo—Wellington, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am sure the hon. member opposite understands when I say how pathetic the Reform Party is as it twists and turns in its own self-flagellation. It is unbelievable how those people opposite are intent always on pitting Canadians against Canadians, region against region, group against group, people against people. That is all those people who are nothing more than disunity type people have in common. They deserve each other and they deserve what they get. However, we on the governing side—

[Ken Epp, Reform, Elk Island, AB]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member is imputing motive and that is against the rules of the House. He cannot do that.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

It being 5.15 p.m., it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of the Business of Supply.

The question is on the amendment. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the amendment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those in favour of the amendment will please say yea.

[Some hon. members]

Yea.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

All those opposed will please say nay.

[Some hon. members]

Nay.

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

In my opinion the nays have it.

And more than five members having rise:

[The Acting Speaker (Ms. Thibeault)]

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the amendment, which was negatived on the following division:)