House of Commons Hansard #73 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was agreed.

Topics

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

June 6th, 2001 / 6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Clifford Lincoln Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted by the existence of Bill C-287, which concerns genetically modified food. I congratulate the member for Davenport for introducing it into the House.

Much more than a matter of labelling, this bill represents the ability of each individual to make a personal choice on the essence of life within an open and democratic society.

In each area that touches our life, we make choices, and we have the right to do so. We choose our children's schools, a doctor, where we will live, where we will build our home, a type of car or of clothing, and so on.

However, when it comes to the food we eat—the simplest and most vital element in our lives—we cannot make a reasonable and intelligent choice.

If I prefer to eat a natural fish rather than a fish from aquaculture or fish farming, I cannot make that choice because no information in the stores differentiates one from the other. In the same way, when it concerns genetically modified foods, no labelling at all distinguishes them from non-modified foods.

Yet if this information were available, I believe that the great majority of people would most definitely opt for non-modified foods. I certainly would.

I realize that proponents of genetically modified foods will adamantly advance the idea that their products are totally safe and present no dangers to our health. Certainly this has been the pitch that the big proponent of genetically modified foods and seeds, Monsanto, has been advancing for several years, now that it has staked its future on genetically modified seeds and crops.

My colleague's objectives in presenting the bill are simple. First, it gives citizens a choice through labelling. This is the fundamental case in his bill. If there is labelling, as he suggests there must be, then obviously citizens are faced with a normal choice. They choose GM foods if they want to or they leave them aside and choose natural foods.

There is a second objective in his bill. Even if science regarding genetically modified foods is not conclusive, we should use the precautionary principle so that we are put in a position where we use caution and the benefit of the doubt in advising people that there may be a potential danger. When science is not conclusive, the precautionary principle, which our country adopted during UNCED at Rio, clearly states that we should use caution regarding any danger or any potential danger to health and environment.

How can we exercise this caution? How can we be preventive? Without labelling, how can we be cautionary and precautionary if we do not know whether the food is of a certain type or not?

As the bill reminds us, Canada has embarked on various international engagements regarding the potential labelling of food. Both the Codex Alimentarius Commission guidelines of 2000 and more recently the biosafety protocol always point toward caution and toward labelling. Bill C-287 would provide a stringent monitoring and recording of all stages of production of genetically modified foods, which would enable correct labelling to be achieved.

Opponents of labelling have been saying for years that we cannot label genetically modified foods because it is almost impossible to separate them from other foodstuffs because they are an intrinsic part of all foodstuff. Yet if the bill were followed, if there were strict monitoring of all stages of creation and production, of food growing, of recording of all the stages, then we would be able to label foods to a sufficiently clear and reasonable degree such that people could make a choice.

In presenting the bill, in having it made votable before the House, and in us having a chance to debate the very issue of labelling, I think Bill C-287 is doing our country a great favour, because so far all the steps we have taken have been voluntary steps. In fact, we are doing Canada a big favour economically because, more and more, various countries will refuse to accept any food exports from us which may be genetically modified.

I urge all colleagues to strongly support the bill to ensure that labelling becomes a legal reality. Certainly in labelling our foods, we will benefit not only the health and the environment of our society but we will help our exports in the long run. I urge all colleagues to back Bill C-287 and vote in favour of it at second reading.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Merrifield Canadian Alliance Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, before I start I would like to ask for the consent of the House to split my time with the member for Yorkton—Melville?

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Does the hon. member have unanimous consent to split his time?

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:40 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Rob Merrifield Canadian Alliance Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on Bill C-287, regarding the labelling of genetically modified foods.

I come from two perspectives. First, I am a member of the health committee. As the deputy health critic in this whole area of genetically modified foods, I believe it is important to see it from a health perspective.

Second, I have quite a bit of firsthand experience in dealing with genetically modified foods. I farm and have grown genetically modified foods for a number of years. I know a little bit of the science and know what actually happens at the farm gate and in the farmer's fields when growing these genetically modified foods.

Some of the confusion for consumers when they look at the whole area of genetically modified foods is whether it is really important. They ask questions such as what is a genetically modified food and is it safe? The whole idea of genetically modified foods is that it is sort of a Frankenstein food.

We need to have a good debate about that before we get into the idea of whether or not we should label it. Once we ask those questions and answer them, we will have a better discernment of exactly what we are trying to label.

We must first understand the degree to which genetically modified foods are being grown in the world today. Some 33 million acres of genetically modified crops, which represents 10% of the world's supply, is actually being grown right now. That is a tremendous number. However, we have yet to see any harmful repercussions from the usage of genetically modified foods.

We should take a look at the long term effects because people are saying our foods maybe become eroded and may not have the same nutritional values that they used to, yet the statistics show a different picture. The statistics show we are living longer and have more active and healthier lives now than ever before. If our food sources were to become polluted or dangerous, the opposite of that would actually take place.

Opponents of this would suggest that is yet to come. It is something we should be cautious of in the future. I would suggest that if that is true, then we should do it on a scientific basis. We should look at genetically modified foods from a scientific perspective as to whether we should label them or not.

The population of the world is exploding. There are more than six billion people right now. How many hungry mouths would we have if we did not grow genetically modified foods? The projections are that we will grow to nine billion people very soon and it will continue to escalate. The technologies that we develop are very important.

Genetically modified foods, depending on how we see them and how we discern what a genetically modified food is, have been around from the beginning of time. We have modified foods for a number of years. Today we have 600 million hectares of wheat grown worldwide. If we were using the same technology that we used in 1965, we would need another 850 million hectares of land to grow that same amount of wheat.

We have hybridized and genetically modified foods for many years. It has now become a bit of a phobia because of what our European neighbours have been doing with regard to genetically modified foods, and suggesting that there is something dangerous and sinister about using them.

If they were honest with the world and with their own people they would be more realistic. They would say they were using opposition to GM foods as a marketing tool. I do not argue that they should not do that. I just argue that they are maybe not being straight up with their population. In Canada we use modified foods and have for a number of years. I think we have proven them to be very safe.

To get a genetically modified food in place, one needs to do a number of things. First, it takes seven years to get it on the shelf. We do not just snap our fingers and make it happen. Seven years of work goes into it. Members must realize that GM foods do not go straight from Monsanto's labs onto the market.

I oppose labelling because the science shows nothing to support it. On that basis, I think we should stay with the science and we will not go wrong.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Garry Breitkreuz Canadian Alliance Yorkton—Melville, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure today to speak to Bill C-287 put forward by the member for Davenport. The member's bill calls for mandatory labelling of foods that contain genetically modified organisms.

I represent a constituency that has agriculture as its main industry. It seems to me that the bill would hurt the farming sector in a very negative way. I have received many letters from agricultural groups that have serious concerns with the legislation.

Mr. Roy Button, president of the Saskatchewan Canola Development Commission, stated in a letter to my office that if mandatory labelling of genetically modified foods is established for some concerned customers then “the cost of food production for all consumers will be increased and there will be no improvement in food safety”. These costs would then be passed on to the producer, resulting in lower commodity prices.

Mr. Ray Hilderman, president of the Saskatchewan Canola Growers Association which represents 40,000 Saskatchewan canola producers, states that a recent study by the Canola Council of Canada showed that canola producers were saving $5.80 an acre by growing transgenic canola. The study said transgenic canola resulted in higher yields, lower dockage for foreign markets, better returns, less field tillage, less use of pesticides and less consumption of fuel, which not only saves the producer money but benefits the environment as well.

He also states that there would be a problem with the labelling of canola oil. As the bill stands now, products derived from genetically modified plants must be labelled. However tests conducted on canola oil cannot differentiate between genetically modified and non-genetically modified canola.

The Ontario Corn Producers' Association, which represents 21,000 corn growers in Ontario, stated in a letter to the member for Davenport that it has found most farmers to be supportive of biotechnology as a means of improving their product. The benefits of biotech include reduced pesticide use and improved pest control, which also benefits the environment.

The OCPA also pointed out that the intention of the bill to abandon the novel crop and food regulations, against which all new crops and foods must be tested, could introduce “new corn varieties made using wide crosses with bananas or barnyard grasses, for example, or soybeans with peanuts, with no requirement for testing”.

The National Dairy Council of Canada states in a letter from its vice-president, Mr. Pierre Nadeau, that the bill raises complex scientific and technical questions. First, what is meant by traditional breeding? What techniques would be classified as biotechnology? Second, how would the 1% threshold be calculated? Would it be calculated on the amount in the food, the per serving amount? Would it be calculated by volume? Would it be calculated by weight?

It appears to me that the legislation is very reactionary. Currently the Canadian General Standards Board is developing a voluntary labelling program for genetically modified foods. With help from over 60 concerned industry and consumer groups, the CGSB is ensuring a labelling standard that is informative, understandable and supportable.

Consumers are demanding that products they buy in stores be properly labelled so they can make wise and informed choices. Government should not interfere in something consumer demand can rectify.

As Mr. Nadeau of the National Dairy Council of Canada stated in his letter:

There is no question that mandatory labelling at this time is driven in large part by perception. People are always afraid of what they do not understand. The question becomes: should legislation be implemented in response to public perception at a particular point in time, or should legislation be the result of enlightened governance?

It seems clear that the legislation was not drafted in an informed light. Why should we force something down the throats of food processors that they themselves have been working on for the last couple of years?

In conclusion I will say that there is a much better way to go on this issue. We should treat it the same way we treat organic foods. Organic foods are labelled on a voluntary basis. That is much more sensible and it is the only practical approach.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Jerry Pickard Liberal Chatham-Kent—Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the bill today.

One of the problems I found when doing research on the topic was that there was confusion with regard to safety versus information. I assure every member of the House and all Canadians that safety is an issue with the inspection of food in Canada. Food safety falls under the Department of Health and the inspection process is important to agriculture as well. We have mandatory labelling wherever safety is an issue.

We could talk about safety as it relates to allergies. There is no one in Canada who would not support that. The debate is not about safety. It is about public information. We must make that clear.

My second point is that there is tremendous concern about approving mandatory labelling before all the research is in. Organizations like the Consumers' Association of Canada, the chambers of commerce, the food manufacturers' groups, distributors' groups and processors' groups, many groups in the agricultural sector, the boards that relate to our grains, and the commodity organizations all have great concern with the issue. There is a wide variety of concerns with regard to the effect the bill will have.

There is another concern that because of the research and work going on, and there is tremendous study going on at this time, it is important to wait before a final verdict is made.

Those are the three points I will talk about in the few moments I have.

Food labelling falls under the Department of Health, and food safety is an issue. There can be no compromise with food safety and labelling in Canada. The Department of Health makes sure that anything with a safety condition is labelled. All other food labelling is controlled by the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and it is its responsibility to ensure labels are done properly. In regard to health, such as allergy products or anything else of that nature, mandatory labelling is in place in Canada and will continue to be.

There are also rules for labelling genetically modified foods on a voluntary basis. Voluntary means a food does or does not contain genetically modified products. A volunteer labelling system affects all consumers, but it is clear that not all organizations dealing with the issue have set out the rules in a clear or concise way.

The Wall Street Journal on April 24, 2000 suggested there were real problems with genetic labelling.

They tested all kinds of products that were labelled genetic free. The results of the tests showed that some materials in the American public which contained 40% genetically modified products were labelled genetic free. Many products were not labelled in an accurate and clear way. That could become a major problem for everyone in Canada.

If we are to go through a labelling process, the process must be clear. It must be able to be confirmed. It must be accurate and not deceptive to anyone. The rules must be set out by the experts: people involved in food processing, governments that have a vested interest in making sure the consumer gets accurate information, chambers of commerce and others.

At this point in time the CGSB, the Canadian General Standards Board, is working with 132 participants. Some of the participants include the Consumers' Association of Canada, the National Institute of Nutrition, the National Research Council, the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, AgriCorp, Ontario Corn Producers, the National Dairy Council, the governments of the provinces and territories, and the departments of health, agriculture, justice, industry and international trade in the Government of Canada.

It is a very broad spectrum. These groups are working as closely as they can with all stakeholders and everyone who wishes to get involved in setting much needed standards for the Canadian public. The results are to be reported within a few months.

It is the obligation of all members of parliament to make certain that proper information comes back so that all groups that have been doing studies for a long time can report, make clear to the Canadian public what information should be reported and labelled, and set out the process in a proper way.

One must wonder why we are moving so quickly at this point in time with a private member's bill when we realize the work that has been done by so many organizations to make certain that Canadians get proper information and that proper standards are set.

The Royal Society of Canada was asked to look into biotechnology and the regulations Canada would need in the future. The society formed an independent panel of science experts and asked them to study biotechnology labelling. They arrived at three conclusions. They endorsed the mandatory labelling system now in place in Canada and said that where health and safety are important proper labelling must be mandatory.

However there are no clear grounds or rules to develop a general mandatory labelling regime. The Royal Society of Canada, which is doing a great deal of study, strongly supports a voluntary labelling system. It does not believe in a mandatory system that would be without rules, clarity or form.

Where do we go from this point? There is no doubt that consumers should have access to information that enables them to make informed decisions about the food they eat. That information must be accurate, understandable, informative, verifiable and not misleading.

Canada's policy for labelling food has served Canadians very well in the health and safety field. The stringent safety requirements upheld by Health Canada, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and Environment Canada have long protected the health of Canadians.

More detail is needed if labelling is to be accurate and useful to consumers. That is why the Government of Canada has put in place a process to develop a set of national standards with voluntary labelling to make sure that this issue is handled appropriately.

We should not pre-empt all the study that is being done by the experts and organizations that have been very intensely involved in food production and safety for many years and cause potential trade problems for all of us.

I come from a riding that is very rural and agricultural and that has the Heinz corporation, one of the major corporations in Canada. I ask members to consider the evidence of experts before supporting the bill.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7 p.m.

Bloc

Suzanne Tremblay Bloc Rimouski-Neigette-Et-La Mitis, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to address Bill C-287, an act to amend the Food and Drugs Act specifically concerning genetically modified food.

This is a very simple piece of legislation. New section 7.1(1) states:

7.1(1) No person shall sell—a food that contains more than one per cent of a genetically modified food, unless it is labelled with a statement a ) that it is or contains an ingredient that is genetically modified, and b ) which food or ingredient is derived from genetic modification.

Earlier, the member for Lac-Saint-Louis told us that it was very important to know what we eat. I think it is a fundamental individual right to know what we eat. But to know it is, this information must provided on the label of the product that we buy at the store.

The member who spoke before me suggested that we consult all the experts, take into account their point of view and look at the findings of the research done before supporting this bill.

If we have to wait for all scientists to agree on the effects of genetically modified foods, and for all the scientific results of the impact of these foods, a lot of water will go under the bridge before we take any action at all.

I think that it is important that labelling be made mandatory. Already, almost 88% of farmers say they are ready to label. Why should we have to have pressure put on us by lobbyists?

Very often I hear members speak who are themselves farmers, and who do not always mention that they are judge and jury in this process.

We are here to pass laws to improve the health of the public. The Canadian Alliance speaker said that he was on the Standing Committee on Health and that he was going to ask, on the committee's behalf, that the bill not be supported.

I hope that it is. If the public is to remain healthy, I would hope that we could at least know what sort of junk we are eating, in order to be able to decide whether or not to buy it. If we do not know what we are eating, it is fairly obvious that the impacts can be horrendous.

Consider what is going on in our society, what we are eating, and in what kind of environment we are living, that there are as many cancers as there are today. We have to wonder. Why are there more and more people being born with all sorts of disabilities, and with much more severe ones? Naturally, people are living longer, and we know more about diseases.

Surely there is something that explains what is going on right now in our world. I think it is important that we support this bill. We must start somewhere. Recently, we did much worse for young offenders than what this bill wants to do with the food we eat.

It seems to me that we could take a first step. If ever this turns out to be completely ridiculous or impossible, it will always be possible to turn around and say that we made a mistake. Then we can change our minds and take a different approach.

I wanted to talk about something that is going on right now. We want this to be done on a voluntary basis. A brewery called Unibroue asked the Canadian Food Inspection Agency to issue a certificate officially guaranteeing that its beer was free of genetically modified organisms.

It was a long process that started on June 22, 2000 and ended around April 24, 2001. Finally, just a month ago, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency issued a certificate guaranteeing that the beer produced by Unibroue was GMO-free. Unibroue needed this certificate to launch a major marketing campaign on the European market, which it did.

What happened next is somewhat catastrophic. When the Canadian Food Inspection Agency saw that Unibroue was using this certificate for marketing purposes and to sell its product, its beer, it decided to withdraw the certificate. It told the company that it could no longer use the certificate, that it was taking it away. The company was told by the agency that it had no right to use the certificate for marketing purposes.

The agency issued the certificate on April 24, 2001, only to withdraw it in June of 2001. It is totally ridiculous. This kind of thing should not happen. It makes no sense.

I am very happy to think that such a bill could be passed. I will certainly recommend that my colleagues in the Bloc Quebecois support this bill, even though we are free to vote as we please on private members' bills.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—St. Clair, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will start this evening by recognizing all the hard work that the hon. member for Davenport has put into the bill. It is an extremely important piece of legislation and the work he has put into it reflects the quality of the representation that he brings into the House.

The bill deserves the support of all political parties in the House. The New Democratic Party is fully in support of the legislation. It has been reflected in our policy for some time and was adopted overwhelmingly in our convention in 1999.

I also want to take this opportunity to recognize the work that my colleague from Winnipeg North Centre has put into this area. She has done much to promote the labelling of genetically modified organisms. In addition to this private member's bill, she also has a private member's bill on the same issue.

It is important to reflect on what has happened in the country in terms of this type of legislation. In that regard I will quote a couple of statistics. More than 80 groups have joined in support of the bill. They have educated the Canadian public about the importance of implementing a mandatory labelling scheme so that the public is made aware of genetically engineered foods before consuming them.

In addition, more than 35 countries around the world have adopted or are in the process of adopting mandatory labelling. The interesting part about that, and maybe the scary part about it, is that Canada is seen now as having fallen significantly behind these other countries. I believe it was my friend on the Liberal side of the House who made a point that I want to echo. As a result of falling behind we face the possibility as a country of losing access to international markets.

Our farming industry is not in great shape, as we all know, and adding to its problems is the last thing the government and the House should be doing. Support for labelling is important from that perspective.

I want to note some of the countries that have adopted or are in the process of adopting standardized mandatory labelling. The United Kingdom, Japan, China, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand, and at least 14 of the European Union countries have gone down this road, much in advance of us.

Bill C-287 would also assist us in complying with our international responsibilities. We have adopted the Cartagena protocol on biosafety. We met internationally. We have debated the issue. We have accepted that protocol. We have to follow through on it. In that regard the bill would allow for the labelling of food or food ingredients that contain genetic material obtained through the use of modern biotechnology. That is right in the definition section of the bill.

When one looks at the details of the bill it is important to note, and again this is some praise to the hon. member for Davenport, that it traces genetically modified organisms that are added to food through all stages of production, distribution, manufacture, packaging and sale. It is extremely important that it is detailed to that degree.

Again I echo the importance, as has been indicated more eloquently by other members, of the basic right of all Canadians to know what is in the food they are consuming. It seems to me that right of the consumer is ingrained in all sorts of legislation. It reflects the consumer movement that has been alive and healthy for a good number of years. In that respect every public opinion poll shows that the vast majority of Canadians believe they have the right to know what is in their food.

Coming back to the 80 groups that have lobbied around the country and have educated the public, they have moved that consciousness in the Canadian public quite significantly over the last five years or six years. We now see that 70%, 80% and sometimes 90% of respondents in these surveys indicate that they believe they have a right to know what is in the food they are consuming.

Some argue that the industry should do it itself, that we should go to voluntary labelling. We have seen in any number of areas that simply does not work. We strongly supports that part of the bill which makes labelling mandatory.

It is interesting to note the excellent work that ended in the report of the Royal Society of Canada earlier this year, in February, I believe. In that report there was a very damning condemnation of the practices of this government as far as food safety is concerned. The society was critical of the government, saying that in fact Canadians do not know enough about genetically modified foods, about what is safe and what is not. The society argued quite strenuously in that report that this is because the process itself is so flawed, so problematic, that governments approve food for human consumption using a methodology that just simply is no longer acceptable.

The precautionary principle should be applicable here. To a significant degree it is reflected in the clauses of this bill. In this situation, that precautionary principle would ensure that if we are not sure about the safety of GM food we do not allow it on the market. If scientists cannot tell us whether it is safe, not only in the short term but in the long term, then it does not go into a product that is sold for human consumption. It is simply not allowed in the marketplace.

It is time for the bill. It is time that we get in line with the international community and with a great deal of our trading partners. It is time to catch up to them. It is time to bring in the bill and pass it in the House so that our society has that protection.

It is a unique opportunity for the House to reflect on the work that has been done by the member for Davenport. We should send this over to committee, let it do its review, then bring it back to this House once it comes out of committee and pass it into law.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

James Lunney Canadian Alliance Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would ask for permission from the House to resume. I did speak to the bill earlier. There was some confusion about me sharing the time with the hon. member. Therefore, with permission of the House, I am asking for agreement to speak again on this issue. I am just looking for the five minutes I missed the last time.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:15 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

I fully understand the hon. member's problem. He is a new member, so in the spirit of co-operation does he have unanimous consent?

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

James Lunney Canadian Alliance Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Mr. Speaker, I thank you and all members in the House for indulging me in this matter.

In the last opportunity I had to address the issue I laid the foundation for the remarks that I will pick up on and continue with. The issue we are considering as we consider this bill is this: are GM foods safe? I believe the public does need some reassurance in this matter. What is the science behind it? We have heard a number of members address this issue. What are the long term effects of GM foods on humans and in the environment? Frankly, nobody really knows.

The argument that has been put forward as Health Canada's primary justification for the safety of these products is a substantial equivalence argument, that is, the gene inserted is one that is known and it produces a certain protein, that protein is available in other products and no evidence of harm in those products has been demonstrated, so therefore it should be acceptable. Frankly, the argument of substantial equivalence does not stand up to scientific scrutiny.

I would ask the hon. members in the House to consider that this argument of substantial equivalence was recently used in a reverse sense by the scientists who developed the oncomouse. We might remember that the oncomouse, developed by Harvard scientists, is a mouse that breeds cancer in all of its offspring, which is very useful for research. I am sure the mouse and its offspring, by the way, are very grateful to the scientists for introducing this.

The change was a very small change, 99.9% the same, but the difference to the mouse and its offspring was quite significant, I would suggest. On the one hand, in order to argue that this mouse was different and to get patenting rights the Harvard scientists argued that this mouse was substantially different. We hear scientists arguing both sides of this equation using the same argument, in one case to say that it is the same and in another case to say it is different enough that a mouse and its progeny can inherit cancer.

I am saying that the substantial equivalents argument does not stand up to the scientific precautionary principle. I am reflecting the recommendations of the Royal Society of Canada that recently reported to the health ministry on this matter wherein 14 distinguished Canadian scientists stated that the precautionary principle is not honoured by substantial equivalents.

I would like to mention that scorpion venom is being used in a baculovirus. Here is a virus being introduced not for food consumption per se but as a pesticide. It was found that the baculovirus slows insect growth, but by inserting a scorpion venom gene the kill rate was very high and effective.

Interestingly enough, another group of scientists are using the baculovirus for liver modification because they find that this virus has access to human liver and brain cells. The two scientists do not seem to be considering that if virus A with scorpion venom should breed with virus B, a very close relative, the consequences for humans could be catastrophic. We need some science to reassure us that these things, which are very stable in the environment but very unstable when they reproduce, are not setting the stage for catastrophic consequences.

The scientific alarm bells are ringing. We cannot ignore the alarm bells. Need we remind ourselves of tainted blood, AIDS, or hepatitis C, believing that our blood system was safe. We might look at the Walkerton water system where officials had been drinking the water for years because they trusted their system was safe but failed to notice that something had changed.

The Prime Minister went to Europe and said that we had been eating these foods for years and that we were healthy. He said “Look at me, do I look sick”? However, that test fails the scientific principle in terms of best science practices.

If Health Canada and the CFIA wants to assure Canadians that these products are safe, we need to employ better science to satisfy Canadians. We need to use best science practices and that minimal risk is involved as was advocated by the royal society. We have an obligation to respect the right of Canadians to choose what they are consuming and give them a choice until the risk from these products is considered reduced.

Health Canada, in assuring these products are safe under present testing, is also exposing the taxpayers to extreme liability as well as potentially risking their health. We need better science around these products to assure Canadians that they are safe. We also need to consider what options are available, including the labelling issue, in order to satisfy Canadians until the scientific principle is better satisfied to reduce the risk of these products.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:20 p.m.

Hastings—Frontenac—Lennox And Addington Ontario

Liberal

Larry McCormick LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food

Mr. Speaker, I would first like to acknowledge that the bill comes from one of the deans of the House who I respect very much. He has always been a committed member and a great driving force in everything he believes in.

It must be the season for compliments, Mr. Speaker, but you are a very wise person to allow as many people as possible to speak on the bill. That is a nice way to do it for members in the House.

Let me remind the House that Canada is recognized worldwide as having one of the safest food systems in the world. The responsibility for food safety is shared at the federal level between Health Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. Health Canada's responsibility regarding food is to establish science based policies and standards to ensure that all foods are safe and nutritious.

Several years ago Health Canada recognized the application of new techniques either to genetically modified micro-organisms and plants in order to produce new food or to simply to produce common, everyday foods another way. It was also recognized that the safety of such foods should be assessed and that the existing regulatory framework of the Food and Drugs Act was the suitable tool to establish a clear and stringent process for evaluating the safety of biotechnology derived foods.

As we all know, a variety of novel foods are being developed and introduced into the Canadian marketplace. These novel foods include foods derived from biotechnology.

Health Canada believes that foods that have not previously been used as foods, or foods that have been modified from their traditional composition as well as foods that have been produced using new technology, including biotechnology, should be assessed prior to being allowed on the market. I think we all agree with that and I respect the people in Health Canada for that.

To this end the federal government has enacted novel foods regulations which define what a novel food is. It makes it mandatory for a company to notify Health Canada before a novel food can be sold in Canada. This pre-market notification ensures that the safety of each novel food, including genetically modified food, is assessed and verified before it can enter the Canadian marketplace. In addition, the definition of novel foods is well tailored to the mandate of Health Canada, ensuring that all foods are safe and nutritious.

The safety assessment undertaken in relation to these regulations is conducted according to scientific principles developed through expert consultation with international authorities such as the World Health Organization, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development.

The approach used in Canada is also followed by regulatory agencies in the European Union, Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the United States. Health Canada's guidelines for the safety assessment of novel foods outline the safety assessment approach. These guidelines have benefited from detailed consultations with stakeholders in Canada and continue to be available for review and critique.

As in the case for approval of most products by regulatory agencies around the world, companies or proponents of biotechnology derived foods are required to submit a set of data which must be of sufficiently high calibre and meet the criteria specified in the guidelines. This information is reviewed by a team of scientific evaluators representing expertise in molecular biology, toxicology, chemistry, nutritional sciences and microbiology.

The scientific validity of study protocols used, as well as the raw data submitted, are critically analyzed. If any part of the information provided is insufficient, including if long term studies are warranted, further studies will be required from that company. The food will not be approved and the food company or proponent will be obligated to carry out those studies and report on the results before any further consideration of the submission.

Concerning food labelling policies in Canada, Health Canada and the Canadian Food Inspection Agency share accountability under the Food and Drugs Act. Health Canada's responsibilities derive from its mandate for health and safety issues, while the Canadian Food Inspection Agency is responsible for protecting consumers from misrepresentation and fraud with respect to food labelling, packaging and advertising and for prescribing basic food labelling and advertising standards.

It is important to note that the development of the interim position on labelling is based upon previous public consultations. Since 1993 there have been three public consultations in Canada on the issue of labelling foods derived through genetic modification.

The public consultation process was used to bring together a group of stakeholders, including industry and industry associations, consumer groups and individuals to determine Canadian views on the subject.

This position calls for mandatory labelling to address health and safety issues. We do that to identify composition or nutritional changes. In these situations labelling is required to alert consumers or susceptible groups in the population at large. Additionally, food producers and manufacturers may voluntarily label foods derived from biotechnology, provided that the label is truthful and not misleading.

Recently labelling of foods derived from the application of biotechnology has become a key issue of public attention. It is important to note that the primary issue related to labelling has been one of consumer choice and the right to know. To examine the broad considerations related to biotechnology, the federal government has created the Canadian biotechnology advisory committee as part of its renewed biotechnology strategy.

In addition, there are several initiatives underway in order to determine the most appropriate mechanisms for providing consumers with information that will assist them to better understand the nature of their food choices.

Health Canada continues to work with colleagues at the Canadian Food Inspection Agency and with other stakeholders, including health professionals, consumer groups and industry associations, in order to develop mechanisms to provide information in the most effective manner regarding foods derived from biotechnology, mechanisms that are consistent with international approaches.

I look forward to further debate on this issue but I think we have to clarify a few more things before we can support the bill.

Food And Drugs ActPrivate Members' Business

7:25 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The hour provided for the consideration of private members' business has now expired and the order is dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the order paper.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:30 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to come back to a question I asked on May 29. My question dealt with the fact that this year the fishing industry in the Acadian Peninsula is what can be called, I guess, a total disaster.

For instance, in the Caraquet area, lobstermen have caught only 6,000 pounds of lobster. On some days, lobstermen in the Petit-Shippagan area have come back home with only 15 and 38 pounds of lobster. That is unheard of.

Also, crab quotas have been cut, which means that less fish or crab have been caught. Fish plants have closed down after only three weeks for lack of fish.

I asked in the House of Commons what the government would do to provide relief to these plant workers?

With all due respect, let me remind the House of what the parliamentary secretary told me at the time “When the licences of an enterprise are sold, it is the responsibility of the enterprise owner to deal with the crew members”.

But I was not talking about crew members; I was talking about plant workers. I am anxious to hear what his answer will be this evening. I hope he will not mention crew members again.

Let us be clear that the fish plants closed after three weeks. Workers in these plants will have trouble making their 420 hours. They will be obliged to take part in projects, and this will be divided by the wonderful 14 week formula. And the gap about which I have spoken so often in the House of Commons will begin in December.

The question I asked on May 29 had to do with what the federal government would do to help New Brunswick cope with this disaster, this crisis in the fishery, which will affect thousands of people.

That was my question. I think that there was some confusion that day. I hope that, now that the question is clearer this evening, the parliamentary secretary who will shortly be replying will be able to answer it.

Second, the federal government bought crab fishers' boats in order to give them to the aboriginals on the Burnt Church reserve. But the aboriginals do not want them. There is no agreement in this regard. It is not good enough that quotas are lower. No one is fishing these quotas. These are resources that are therefore not reaching the fish plants.

What will the government do so that these quotas can be distributed to someone else, to other fishers, so that the fish and seafood quotas are used and people can go to work?

It makes no sense that the government spent over $10 million to close the fishery. There is nothing to show for it. People have no work.

I know that I am getting to the end of my four minutes, so I am going to ask a clear question of the government.

What is the federal government going to do to help the fish plant workers in the Acadian peninsula, who have had only three weeks work? These people could not get work this year because of the crisis we are still having with the crab fishery. What will the federal government do to help the province of New Brunswick set up a partnership in order to help these workers?

I believe my question is clear. This is what I would like to have an answer from the parliamentary secretary on. In other words, I would like to have a reply to the question I asked him on May 29.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:30 p.m.

Burin—St. George's Newfoundland & Labrador

Liberal

Bill Matthews LiberalParliamentary Secretary to President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, let me say at the outset that I sympathize with the hon. member. I understand his question very well.

Representing pretty much a total fishing riding, I know the difficulties that the lack of resources can cause, not only for the harvesters but particularly for fish plant workers who do not have enough resources to process in their plants to provide meaningful work.

Having said that, the 1996 crab season was marked by riots and demonstrations by traditional crab fishery workers in northeastern New Brunswick. To provide temporary sharing of a very lucrative resource with non-traditional participants meant that these workers would see their weeks of work decline with reduced quotas for the traditional crab fleet.

As a result the traditional crab industry proposed a solidarity fund to assist plant workers and displaced crew members to adjust to declining employment. The solidarity fund has always been an industry led initiative with contributions from all crab harvesters each year.

The province of New Brunswick has also made contributions over the years, including a contribution of $1 million this year. The New Brunswick portion of the fund currently includes about $130,000 remaining from last year, plus contributions made this year by temporary participants in the fishery. The issue of contributions to the fund is one that must be resolved between crab fishers and plant workers.

In addition, under the Employment Insurance Act there are a number of HRDC benefits designed to aid unemployed Canadians. To further address the issue of the shortage of work for crab fishery workers in New Brunswick, officials of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans are currently co-operating with HRDC and the province of New Brunswick to try to find some solution for this problem.

The plant workers have asked the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to allocate crab to them. To do so would be contrary to a long established policy.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Inky Mark Canadian Alliance Dauphin—Swan River, MB

Mr. Speaker, let me begin by complimenting the parliamentary secretary on his commitment to the work of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration and the co-operative spirit he always offers in the committee.

I reiterate the question I asked of the minister during question period regarding what he had said publicly in the newspapers:

—the minister of has said that the Sklarzyk family are queue jumpers, but the fact is that the family has been ordered deported due to a technical error. Meanwhile a suspected assassin, Rudy Pacificador, has been allowed to stay in the country for 14 years and still has not been deported.

Where are the fairness and compassion in her system when it allows a suspected assassin to be treated better than a family who has behaved in an exemplary fashion?

The bad news is that the family was deported back to Poland a couple of weekends ago. My role tonight is not to be their legal advocate. My role is to raise questions about the system and why the system operates the way it does.

First, why do we protect criminals over lawful citizens even though they do not have status as permanent residents but are certainly visitors to this country? Second, why is it that we create these problems for ourselves?

Let us examine the Sklarzyk case. They came here in 1994 with two children who had been born in Poland. The irony is that they came under a visitor's visa, but the fact is their visitor's visa was renewed three times. One would think this would give the Sklarzyks the wrong message about staying around here. After three renewals they disappeared. Ironically they disappeared to start a business and raise another family. They had two more children in this country.

After seven years all of a sudden the government takes an interest in thinking that they should be removed. For what cause? Was it because they were $50 short on their application fee? Their lawyer says they actually paid the application fee twice.

Meanwhile 15,000 people have written warrants for their deportation and we cannot even find them because we do not know where they are. However we knew where the poor Sklarzyk family was. They were in a business and raising their family like other immigrants who have come here for centuries.

Why do we pick on people like the Sklarzyks? Certainly they are a good example of the error we made in encouraging them to stay here. At the same time it shows that this county is not compassionate.

My question for the parliamentary secretary is this: why do we do what we do? It is a poor example to the world when Canada is supposed to be seen as a country that shows compassion.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:40 p.m.

Gatineau Québec

Liberal

Mark Assad LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to say that the member for Dauphin—Swan River showed that he is a very open minded individual during deliberations in committee. On many occasions his contributions were very liberal, if I may use the term. It was greatly appreciated. In fact, that goes for every member of the committee. There was co-operation and there were heartfelt and compassionate discussions on the best possible policy for immigration for our country.

In response to the question, the key role of our immigration policy is to strike a balance between enforcement and facilitation. It is always difficult to tell people that they have to leave Canada. I can imagine that it is very dramatic. I can assure the member that in the case of the Sklarzyk family, reported by the media, the file has been reviewed and there was no administrative error. That is a fabrication of the media.

In Canada, we apply the law in keeping with the rules. Before a person is expelled, he or she is entitled to application of the law in keeping with the rules.

I can guarantee the hon. member that no one is expelled because of administrative error. There is a clear order of priority governing expulsions: criminals, rejected refugee claimants, and visitors whose visas have expired.

In 1999, as reported in the media, the family overstayed the limits of their visitor's visa. At that point they had already been granted extensions and were advised to submit an application for permanent residence if their intention was to stay in Canada. No application was submitted, but the family did claim refugee status. Further, the Immigration and Refugee Board determined that the family members were not refugees. Subsequently, the family has now exhausted all avenues of appeal.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:40 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, on April 5 I brought to the attention of the House the wonderful news that women and part time workers had just won an important victory, with a federal judge deciding that Canada's employment insurance rules violate their constitutional rights.

Kelly Lesiuk from Winnipeg brought forward the first charter challenge that the Employment Insurance Act treats women and part time workers unfairly. Kelly, as a part time nurse, was unable to claim EI benefits because she fell 33 hours short of qualifying. Problems with her pregnancy had forced her to stop work at five months. To make ends meet she had to return to work six weeks after undergoing a Caesarean section and the family had to deplete its savings and borrow money.

Justice Roger Salhany found that the current eligibility rules which require workers to accumulate 700 hours of employment to qualify for benefits are discriminatory. He stated:

—the eligibility requirements demean the essential human dignity of women who predominate in the part-time labour force because they must work for longer periods than full-time workers in order to demonstrate their labour force attachment.

This makes it almost impossible for them to collect benefits. His ruling is clear. The Employment Insurance Act discriminated against women and part time workers. Women make up 70% of the part time workforce and carry most of the responsibility for raising children. This decision recognizes the juggling act of working mothers and indicates that they should not be penalized.

Because women continue to serve as primary caregivers they have fewer hours available for paid work outside the home. Consequently they end up working fewer hours, often in part time employment and, like Kelly Lesiuk, they fail to qualify for benefits.

Unbelievably the government decided to appeal this decision, with the minister saying that she needed to seek clarity. How much more clarity does the government need? An inequality is staring them in the face. Kelly Lesiuk and other women are forced to wait for the outcome of this appeal. Over 60 cases are also waiting to be heard. The government must act to recognize the real circumstances of women in the workforce.

Why has the government chosen to postpone justice for Canadian workers? What is the government prepared to do to address this situation? Will the government change eligibility requirements to remove the barriers creating these inequalities.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:45 p.m.

Laval West Québec

Liberal

Raymonde Folco LiberalParliamentary Secretary to Minister of Human Resources Development

Mr. Speaker, the question is an important one for part time workers, particularly as the member opposite mentioned, because such a large number of part time workers are women.

The Canada Employment Insurance Commission unanimously agreed to seek a judicial review of Justice Salhany's decision by the Federal Court of Appeal. However the scope of the umpire's ruling went beyond Ms. Lesiuk's case. Therefore, the commission felt that it was important to seek clarification with respect to a number of the aspects of this ruling.

Justice Salhany did not invalidate the employment insurance provisions at issue. The existing qualifying requirements for both regular and maternity employment insurance benefits continue to apply.

It is now up to the Federal Court of Appeal to determine the outcome of the application. As this issue is now before the courts, it is impossible for me to comment specifically about the case.

Food And Drugs ActAdjournment Proceedings

7:45 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 7.47 p.m.)